Max Scherzer to the big club
by foulpole on Apr 27, 2008 3:12 PM EDT
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Printkishi posted this link in the gameday thread and SongBird broke the news. I thought that it deserved it's own fan post.
The two thoughts from Nick's article that I agree with are posted below.
Maybe they’re going to move him into the rotation and bump Edgar Gonzalez back to that swing role in the bullpen? That, to me, would seem like the most likely move.
But I think it’s important that he continues to develop as a starter. They might need him in the rotation next year or maybe even later this year. Having him throw inconsistent innings out of the pen isn’t going to allow him to further develop his change-up and slider. It’s not going to get his innings total up to the point where he could throw 180 innings if he’s in the rotation next year.
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If the D'Backs move Scherzer to the rotation,
then they have to have a pitch count for him, don’t want to mess up a talent like Scherzer.
I still know how to spell Dirk, M-V-P
I care.
But I care more about the Dbacks.
Heck—two years removed from a AAA National Championship, the ‘Winders are awful, but all those guys are moving towards an MLB Championship. (Hopefully!!)
I get the sense that, with CarGo and a bunch of our other big-time prospects gone elsewhere, I won’t be asked to do another Sidewinders Scouting Report. That is, until Parker gets here….
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Well...
it’s bound to happen when all the talent finally breaks through to the Bigs. I haven’t looked at the ratings in almost a year. I have to admit that I don’t really keep track of the minor league system. I wonder how the Arizona system stacks up now that all the players are in Phoenix? I hope the next group is getting ready for AAA and the well isn’t dry.
As for the Sidewinders, I’m indifferent. I’ll watch the players when they get to the big leagues. The AAA team, though, can kiss mine. I have no use for teams that expect the taxpayers to keep picking up the tab or else they’ll take their toys and go somewhere else. Screw ‘em. It happens in all leagues, but minor league baseball really has some big ones to think that taxpayers should keep laying out money to enrich them while there’s no money to pay for social programs or roads. I’m still furious that Tucson & Pima County have put so much money into TEP, and now the Rockies want us to put more into Hi Corbett. There are real, human needs here that go a bit deeper than baseball parks for millionaire players and billionaire owners. If they want to go, good riddance.
Sure sounds from Byrnes’ comments that Scherzer will be in the pen. That is rather odd since the organization has held fast with Scherzer as a starter… why revert now? I agree with the line of thought here: put him in the rotation. I’d be interested in someone’s thoughts who understands arb better than myself about the implications of this call up. Don’t you earn an extra year of arbitration if you pull a rookie up after May 1?
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
It grants an additional pre-arbitration year,
unless Scherzer gets classified as a super-two. per MLB:
A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
It has to be three full years of service to arb-eligible under normal circumstances – so whether or not Scherzer’s called up now or in September, if he starts next season on the ML roster he won’t be (non super-two) arb-eligible until 2012.
Update, 1:30 p.m.: We spoke with GM Josh Byrnes this morning and he basically said the move was made because of a need in the bullpen.Byrnes was asked how much they balanced Scherzer’s development in the decision to bring him up.
"I think we’re still aware of it," Byrnes said. "Yes, he can develop some in the big leagues. There are a lot of issues, but right now the most compelling issue is we need him in the big leagues. We just have a tired bullpen. There’s a little more short-term urgency than there has been."
As for the bullpen/starter thing, Byrnes said the club wants him to be a starter long-term, it’s just that right now they need help in the bullpen. And what’s going to happen with his role the rest of this season?
"We’ll see," Byrnes said. "I think that’s going to be the fluidity of this season. Sort of assessing what our big league team needs and how he can contribute. And then also aware of the longer view of him and the team."
To me, that means: If he isn’t getting innings here, he might have to go back down to get them. However, with Doug Davis’ situation uncertain and with your best alignment possibly being Gonzalez in the bullpen and Scherzer in the rotation, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start some games here soon.
By the way, Petit, who didn’t pitch poorly while he was here, will go into the rotation in Tucson. He’ll start Thursday, Byrnes said.
All of the above was added since the article was first posted.
I would be pretty surprised if DD doesn’t get his job back when he returns. That would give us Webby, Haren, RJ, Micah and DD. So, as far as the arb issue, my guess would be the Max goes back down when DD is activated so no biggie there. EdGon is out of options so unless Max was tearing it up and we could deal EdGon then it would make sense to send Max to Tucson.
JB did mention a need in the pen but does that definitly mean that Max wouldn’t start and EdGon be moved to the pen? I mean, part of the reason for an overused pen is due to EdGon’s inability to chew up innings as a starter. He’s averaging less than 5 IP per start.
Why is the Pen Tired?
Reposting what I put in Nick’s blog:
The D Backs rank 15th out of 16 NL in innings by the bullpen through yesterdays 13 inning game
The Pen has thrown 75 innings through the first 24 games, and the only team that has thrown fewer bullpen innings are the Cardinals
As for our division rivals:
Col, SD, and SFO rank 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in most bullpen innngs with 91, 90 and 87 respectively and LA ranks 9th with 81
So Melvin hasn’t done anything wrong here at all. However, my question is why are the bullpen arms so tired if they’ve haven’t worked that many innings. ? Is it just a matter of the last few days?
That was my first question
I’ve actually been very pleased with Melvin’s bullpen management thus far (with a few notable exceptions).
it’s easy to spread the work around when the pitching is going well, but to Melvin’s credit, he’s done it.
Chad Qualls has thrown the most innings at 14 1/3. He’s tied for 24th most innings thrown among relievers – and 2/3rds of his innings came on one pitch.
The full bullpen rankings – IP – league rank – 162 game pace (IPx6.5),
C. Qualls – 14.1 – t. 24 – 91.2,
B. Medders – 11.2 – t. 63, – 76,
B. Lyon – 11 – t. 81 – 71.6,
T. Pena – 10.1 – t. 107 – 67,
J. Crew – 9.2 – t. 127 – 63,
Y. Petit – 7.2 – t. 168 – 50,
D. Slaten – 7.1 – ... – 47.2,
Games – league rank
C. Qualls – 13 – t. 4,
B. Lyon – 12 – t. 25
T. Pena – 11 – t. 49
J. Crew – 11 – t. 49
B. Medders – 10 – 88
D. Slaten – 9 – t. 122
Y. Petit – 6 – t. 186
Just giving it a cursory comparative glance, it seems to be the main difference between our bullpen and the rest of the NL West is that they’ve already used eight or nine different guys. I hope it’s just a matter of the last few days, because all but Qualls and Slaten are right on pace to pitch a reasonable amount of innings and have already shown in their history that they can throw that many innings. Slaten doesn’t have the ML track record, but obviously should hold up to 50-60 innings. Qualls may need to be backed off a bit, but that appears to be part of their plans.
Part of me really likes the philosophy behind this move. You won’t really have a long man, but eventually there should be seven pitchers in the ‘pen that BoMel would be comfortable using in non-blow out/non-extra innings game. A more even distribution of innings would go a long way towards limiting the top end’s workload.
But, I think the greater good is to have Scherzer starting. Either here or in Tucson, both would be fine by me. If he’s being called up purely in a relief capacity, I hope to god it’s temporary, but as we’ve seen in New York this season – it can be really hard to take a young gun out of the bullpen if he’s having great success.
Colorado and San Diego are only 2nd and 3rd? I would have thought a 22 inning game would have been a big edge. Who’s first?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."
Pirates -
They’ve played in four extra-innings games and their starters go less than 5 1/3 innings per game (with a 6.26 ERA).
Some info from Steve Gilbert.
“Primarily, the next few days, the thing that he brings is if we do have a long game he can pitch some innings,” Arizona general manager Josh Byrnes said. “He also has some experience pitching in a shorter role, most recently in the Fall League.”
So, do we take from this that if he’s needed out of the pen for “the next few days” that is how he will be used and if he is not needed then he get’s Ed-it’s-Gon’s next start?
“In the long term, I think with any pitcher we would sort of give starting every opportunity to be successful,” Byrnes said. “He’s responded. He’s really done quite nicely. We’ve gotten him through the system in Double-A and in Triple-A and even in Spring Training. We’re optimistic that he can be a quality Major League starter, and probably prefer that that’s the focus at this point.”
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080427&content_id=2600387&vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari
Edgar is due to make his next start on Tuesday.
We have:
Mon Haren
Tues Edgar
Wed RJ
Over “the next few days” who is most likely to need a big chunk of IP from the pen?
It sounds to me as if the FO is looking at Scherzer less as a pure reliever and more as a mid-game starter, so to speak, coming in behind EdGon in the fifth or sixth. It should take some pressure off EdGon – if he can knock off four, maybe five decent innings, he can hit the showers with a clean conscience.
It's not really
a question of “how much worse can he do”. It’s a question of whether or not that would be the best use of his already-significant talent.
"Juan Cruz has Freddy Krueger stuff. Welcome to Elm Street." -- Mark Grace
Yep
I see him taking over from Medders as the bridge to our 7-8-9 guys.
I think with Medders throwing 2 innings and Petit throwing 3 on Saturday, they thought they might need a long reliever for Sunday and today. Maybe. :)
I was gonna say....
wait, who you callin’ a tool?
"Juan Cruz has Freddy Krueger stuff. Welcome to Elm Street." -- Mark Grace
Interesting. Fox Sports reports that Scherzer was called up on Saturday, after the Diamondback’s second straight loss. Uh, no.
I did laugh at the comment below by one of the readers: “The Dbacks should not be allowed to do this, it is unfair to other teams in the bigs.”
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."
I know what they meant
If you give up 8 runs to that AA lineup, you should be charged with 2 losses :)
So, after tonight’s game, does anyone still feel that Max shouldn’t be in the rotation instead of Ed-is-Gon?
geez… I told you Bo-Mel was going to put him in the pen… and I told you it was a bad idea. Wish we wouldn’t have wasted a game to figure that out, but he should get it right now.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
I am so sad I missed the debut. Anyone know if there is any video anywhere? I am definitely up for at least giving Scherzer a shot at the rotation. Please, give Scherzer a chance. At this point can it be worse?
Off to look at the game thread for Scherzer reaction.
I’ll sum up the general reaction to Scherzer’s appearance in one word for you: Wooooooooooooooh!
He had a great outing.
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
Thanks
Yeah, that is indeed the reaction I read. Darn. This is just not a good week for DBacks watching for me. I won’t be able to actually see a game until Sunday.
But, I would be around Monday. So, if BoMel feels like giving Scherzer a start, Monday would be good….
That would be the obvious next date
It’s EdGon’s next scheduled start, since it looks like they are giving everyone an extra day off because of no game on Thursday – Micah on Friday, Webb on Saturday and Haren on Sunday. However, he only threw 47 pitches, so if they intend to use Scherzer out of the pen, he would be available for the Mets series, I imagine.
by Jim McLennan on Apr 30, 2008 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Monday would be nice
I’ll be down in Phoenix by then, so I’d be able to catch it on TV….
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
LOL
“Can it be worse?” We’re so spoiled as Dbacks fans. It’s April, we have a 5.5 game lead in the division, and the best record in baseball, and we’re going to complain about our 5th starter.
Anyway, would you like a summary of Max Scherzer’s big league debut? Imagine 4.1 innings of pure kickassness. Now double the kickassness.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Sigh
Must have been great to be able to offset the loss with so much kickassness.
LOL about the “Can it be worse”. Yeah, I know we are spoiled. But, it kind of sucks going into every 5th game 99.9% sure that you are going to lose. Especially when you are pretty sure in the other 4 games that you have a good shot to win. At least let me feel like we might not lose.
Well
EdGon had been decent up until tonight…. 1-1 with a 4.66 ERA coming into the game.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
If you can win
Half the games pitched by your #5 starter, you are doing VERY well.
by Jim McLennan on Apr 30, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Edgar is the weakest link on our roster and is out of options. I would love to hear that the org was able to deal him somewhere.
We need
Ed Gon a thousand times more than we need Robbie Hammock.
Besides that, with Scherzer starting we definitely need him as a long man. In addition to all the normal young pitcher warnings, he’s a pitcher with a history of not working past six innings and now he’s going to be facing big leaguers with a 90 pitch cap.
But maybe once the front office finishes your first recommendation and trade Connor Jackson for Tony Clark, they can turn their focus to dealing Gonzalez.
Foulpole, I’ve got to admit, I had the same feelings in the heat of that game… but honestly that was more frustration with BoMel than with EdGon… but EdGon has proved a valuable enough commodity and shouldn’t be banished to the waiver wire yet (no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade right now).
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
You wrote:
but honestly that was more frustration with BoMel than with EdGon
Maybe the org was giving Edgar one last chance to save his temporary starting job? I was an advocate of giving the start to Max over EdGon.
you wrote:
...but EdGon has proved a valuable enough commodity and shouldn’t be banished to the waiver wire yet (no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade right now).
Above, in this thread, I wrote:
I would be pretty surprised if DD doesn’t get his job back when he returns. That would give us Webby, Haren, RJ, Micah and DD. So, as far as the arb issue, my guess would be the Max goes back down when DD is activated so no biggie there. EdGon is out of options so unless Max was tearing it up and we could deal EdGon then it would make sense to send Max to Tucson.
BTW, if EdGon is such “a valuable enough commodity” then why would there be “no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade..”
I never said that he should be sent to the waiver wire and there is still time before DD returns but I would hope that the org is shopping him pretty hard right now.
The point is
that a serviceable 6th starter like EdGon, who has experience and willingness in coming out of the ‘pen, is more valuable to us than anyone we could get for him in a trade.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
.......
That’s a very impressive line of argument you’ve got. How can I possibly contradict that??
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
It's official
PHOENIX (AP)—Once he made it to the big leagues, Max no time in earning a spot in the Arizona Diamondbacks’ rotation.The hard-throwing right-hander will start Monday when Arizona is home against the Philadelphia Phillies, Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said before Wednesday’s game against Houston.
Scherzer will take Edgar Gonzalez’s spot. Gonzalez will go to the bullpen.
Melvin said the decision was "based on some pretty good results that we saw."
Maybe we can send Ed-it’s-Gon to Texas? He can be reunited with the worst pitcher that we had on the roster.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsX_qzwJUVOCW6LC9YBnUP0Q0bYF?slug=ap-diamondbacks-scherzer&prov=ap&type=lgns
Manager Bob Melvin and Josh Byrnes, the team’s general manager, met just after the D-backs lost, 6-4, to the Astros and made the decision.“It was a very short meeting,” Melvin said on Wednesday only hours before his club closed its three-game series against Houston.
In the future, to prevent the scroll bars from appearing,
could you just provide web addresses in html link form?
Like this?
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on May 1, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you not know the html?
If not,
type out the word you want to be the link. For example, “Story”. Then, highlight the text and click on the little Link button above—the little chain symbol next to the blockquote. A window will pop up asking you the web address. Enter it. Presto, it’s written the html code for you: Story
I just write the html myself because I can do it faster using the keyboard than using the keyboard and mouse, but YMMV.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
since we're doing tech support
how do you post pictures into the comments? I’ve just been linking them
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on May 1, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, if you don't know the html offhand,
SBN 2.0 writes it for you. All you have to do is click on the little picture of the tree (labeled “Image”) above and to the right of the chain button. A window will pop up asking for the image address. Put the address of the picture in the dialog box and then press okay. The html has now written an image into itself.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
but if it isn't web hosted
how would I upload one?
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on May 1, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have a Flickr account or something similar?
I’m not positive, but I believe regular members can upload pictures and such to the SnakePit server… not sure, though. I’ll have to look into it.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
So, is this right? On Monday, when Scherzer starts, the DBacks will be starting their 1st round draft picks from 2003, 2004, 2005 & 2006? I suppose I could look this up, but I am too lazy. But weren’t CoJack, Drew, Upton and Scherzer all the #1 pick for the DBacks in their respective years? That’s kind of amazing.
by SongBird on May 1, 2008 4:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
good stuff...
and it shows the remarkable success of the organization in drafting. Heck, with Scherzer and Owings in the rotation, we might even be (ever so slightly) shaking our reputation as not able to draft/develop arms.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
With 60% of our rotation home-grown? Yeah, that should at least help shake that reputation.
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
I know it's sad
http://flickr.com/photos/26183722@N07/2458624130/
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on May 1, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
crap F'd it up
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on May 1, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Perhaps the fact that 248 other picks were made before Brandon Webb was drafted makes me feel a little better. Seriously, that has to be one of the luckiest draft picks ever. 249th. For one of the best 3 pitchers in baseball. Especially funny considering how many picks in that draft were total busts.
And Peavy was even later in his draft from what I remember. Quite a bit later, I think. So basically, Micah Owings was drafted earlier in his year than Webb or Peavy were in theirs. Gotta love the baseball draft, eh?
It's the MLB Draft.
Even a bigger crapshoot than the NFL Draft.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Seriously
And people think Tom Brady was a steal. Er, well, he really was. But, Webb in the 8th round? Peavy in something like the 14th or 15th? Sheesh, the baseball draft is crazy.
Which is why I am kind of surprised to see the DBacks starting their #1’s from 2003-2006.
Yeah.
That’s an EXCELLENT string of first round draft picks.
On another note, if you want to see a draft that was VERY successful, check out the first round of the 2005 draft: Justin Upton, Ryan Braun, Troy Tulowitzki, Ryan Zimmerman, Mike Pelfrey, Jacoby Ellsbury, Matt Garza, etc. Talk about a good round.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Also,
I wasn’t aware that Tim Lincecum and Max Scherzer went back to back in 2006. Should be interesting to watch them both mature.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
I assume you saw the directions in the other post?
To get the address of the picture, go to the page, right click on the picture and select “Copy Image Location”. You need the actual address of the image itself, not just the address of the Flickr page. In this case, your image address is “http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2458624130_ac800403d8.jpg?v=0” (That last ”?v=0” isn’t actually necessary. The address should probably end in a .jpg or .gif.)
Follow the image posting instructions, and you get this:
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
yeah I knew what I did wrong
just didn’t want to bore you with a “new” comment to fix it
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on May 2, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed,
ugh…
As the Astros are in the process of learning, don’t pay top talent for Closers.
Just collect a pen full of live arms and let the cream rise to top. The shelf life of an elite reliever is so short and unpredictable that doing any more is usually setting yourself up for failure.
Saves
are possibly the most overrated, overvalued, bloated and meaningless statistic in baseball today. You’re better off going with a sharp young guy, even if it means he blows a few, than paying top dollar for a high-profile established closer. Save the money and put it somewhere else.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
V. Cool
Especially when you look at the picks before that:
2002 Sergio Santos SS – still in the minors [AAA]
2001 Jason Bulger RHP – 23.2 major-league innings
1999 Corey Myers SS – still in the minors [AA]
1997 Jack Cust 1B – had a good 2007, but batting .176 for Oakland this year.
1996 Nick Bierbrodt LHP – 6.66 career ERA. Shot twice in the chest in 2002. Played in the Taiwanese league last year.
No first-round picks in 1998 or 2000. We did also have two first-round picks in 2003, also snagging Quentin, but Jackson was the higher choice.
“No first-round picks in 1998 or 2000.”
In ‘98 we picked Darryl Conyer in the 1st round and in ‘00 we selected Mike Schultz. Some sites may not show them if they went unsigned but in baseball you can’t trade draft picks so you have a 1st rounder every year.
Darryl Conyer was drafted in the third round – Mike Schultz in the second.
You can’t trade draft picks in the MLB but can you can forfeit them to other teams in exchange for free agent acquisitions of players whose team offered them arbitration.
Sergio Santos
helped bring O-Dawg onboard, didn’t he? Along with Glaus, of course….
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Doesn't Scherzer's sinker reminds of Peavy's.
it starts right down the pipe and ends up grazing the bottom of the strike zone.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
Wow that sentence made no sense.
Doesn’t Scherzer’s sinker remind you of Peavy’s.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
Max to the 'pen when Davis returns
According to Derrick Hall:
punterjoe: Mr. Hall, when Doug Davis returns will Max Scherzer return to the bullpen or be sent down?
Hall: At this point, the plan would be to put him back in the ‘pen. Assuming everyone else remains healthy, with Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, Randy Johnson and Micah Owings, it’s the likely scenario. We are excited for his starting debut on Monday though.
I think that's best
to keep his innings reasonable and his arm attached to his.
But I couldn’t help but wonder, should Derrick Hall really be the one talking about this? I’m a huge believer in the separation of business and baseball – especially the baseball decisions that aren’t contract related.
I kind of wondered that too.
That said, I am glad to hear they intend to keep him up in the big leagues. It will hopefully do him some good to get some innings without overtaxing him.
Not to mention
we’ll have a long reliever better than most teams’ #2 starter.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
From what I hear Byrnes and BoMel are very tight… my assumption is that Byrnes is saying this not as a way to force BoMel’s hand, but rather in concert with BoMel. I’m fine with that. If RJ hasn’t straightened things out by the time DD comes back I’d send RJ to the DL and let him rest/get his stuff together. No reason to tire him out. We just need him to figure out how to pitch 5-6 innings of decent ball come September.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
Brewers need a pitcher.
If Scherzer pitches well, would the D’Backs considered trading double d back to Milwaukee.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
Not since
he cut off the “Latin Lover” hair that he had last year.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
Right now,
I think I’d only trade Double D if we could get notably more than his value. It’d be Quentin all over again—we’d be trading him at a low point in his value. (Coming off of cancer surgery)
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
We still need
DD for next year since Randy will likely be gone.
And this year too, since Scherzer is far from a proven horse.
Well,
unless we could get a younger starter from the Brew Crew. That’s my point about “notably more than” his value.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
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