Max Scherzer to the big club
kishi posted this link in the gameday thread and SongBird broke the news. I thought that it deserved it's own fan post.
The two thoughts from Nick's article that I agree with are posted below.
Maybe they’re going to move him into the rotation and bump Edgar Gonzalez back to that swing role in the bullpen? That, to me, would seem like the most likely move.
But I think it’s important that he continues to develop as a starter. They might need him in the rotation next year or maybe even later this year. Having him throw inconsistent innings out of the pen isn’t going to allow him to further develop his change-up and slider. It’s not going to get his innings total up to the point where he could throw 180 innings if he’s in the rotation next year.
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If the D'Backs move Scherzer to the rotation,
then they have to have a pitch count for him, don’t want to mess up a talent like Scherzer.
I still know how to spell Dirk, M-V-P
by srdmad on Apr 27, 2008 3:29 PM EDT 0 recs
Makes sense to me but he could also be held out of a few starts as a number 5 when the schedule gives the team a day off. And, when the roster is expanded late in the year he could also lose some innings.
by foulpole on
Apr 27, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
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Does this officially make the Sidewinders the worst team in the history of Minor League ball?
by isoldout on Apr 27, 2008 3:44 PM EDT 0 recs
Their job, IMO, is to develop players for the big club. I don’t really care if they win or lose.
by foulpole on
Apr 27, 2008 7:13 PM EDT
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I care.
But I care more about the Dbacks.
Heck—two years removed from a AAA National Championship, the ‘Winders are awful, but all those guys are moving towards an MLB Championship. (Hopefully!!)
I get the sense that, with CarGo and a bunch of our other big-time prospects gone elsewhere, I won’t be asked to do another Sidewinders Scouting Report. That is, until Parker gets here….
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 2, 2008 1:42 AM EDT
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Well...
it’s bound to happen when all the talent finally breaks through to the Bigs. I haven’t looked at the ratings in almost a year. I have to admit that I don’t really keep track of the minor league system. I wonder how the Arizona system stacks up now that all the players are in Phoenix? I hope the next group is getting ready for AAA and the well isn’t dry.
As for the Sidewinders, I’m indifferent. I’ll watch the players when they get to the big leagues. The AAA team, though, can kiss mine. I have no use for teams that expect the taxpayers to keep picking up the tab or else they’ll take their toys and go somewhere else. Screw ‘em. It happens in all leagues, but minor league baseball really has some big ones to think that taxpayers should keep laying out money to enrich them while there’s no money to pay for social programs or roads. I’m still furious that Tucson & Pima County have put so much money into TEP, and now the Rockies want us to put more into Hi Corbett. There are real, human needs here that go a bit deeper than baseball parks for millionaire players and billionaire owners. If they want to go, good riddance.
by azshadowwalker on Apr 27, 2008 4:38 PM EDT 0 recs
Sure sounds from Byrnes’ comments that Scherzer will be in the pen. That is rather odd since the organization has held fast with Scherzer as a starter… why revert now? I agree with the line of thought here: put him in the rotation. I’d be interested in someone’s thoughts who understands arb better than myself about the implications of this call up. Don’t you earn an extra year of arbitration if you pull a rookie up after May 1?
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
by njjohn on Apr 27, 2008 7:29 PM EDT 0 recs
It grants an additional pre-arbitration year,
unless Scherzer gets classified as a super-two. per MLB:
A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
It has to be three full years of service to arb-eligible under normal circumstances – so whether or not Scherzer’s called up now or in September, if he starts next season on the ML roster he won’t be (non super-two) arb-eligible until 2012.
by dahlian on
Apr 27, 2008 7:39 PM EDT
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Update, 1:30 p.m.: We spoke with GM Josh Byrnes this morning and he basically said the move was made because of a need in the bullpen.Byrnes was asked how much they balanced Scherzer’s development in the decision to bring him up.
"I think we’re still aware of it," Byrnes said. "Yes, he can develop some in the big leagues. There are a lot of issues, but right now the most compelling issue is we need him in the big leagues. We just have a tired bullpen. There’s a little more short-term urgency than there has been."
As for the bullpen/starter thing, Byrnes said the club wants him to be a starter long-term, it’s just that right now they need help in the bullpen. And what’s going to happen with his role the rest of this season?
"We’ll see," Byrnes said. "I think that’s going to be the fluidity of this season. Sort of assessing what our big league team needs and how he can contribute. And then also aware of the longer view of him and the team."
To me, that means: If he isn’t getting innings here, he might have to go back down to get them. However, with Doug Davis’ situation uncertain and with your best alignment possibly being Gonzalez in the bullpen and Scherzer in the rotation, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start some games here soon.
By the way, Petit, who didn’t pitch poorly while he was here, will go into the rotation in Tucson. He’ll start Thursday, Byrnes said.
All of the above was added since the article was first posted.
I would be pretty surprised if DD doesn’t get his job back when he returns. That would give us Webby, Haren, RJ, Micah and DD. So, as far as the arb issue, my guess would be the Max goes back down when DD is activated so no biggie there. EdGon is out of options so unless Max was tearing it up and we could deal EdGon then it would make sense to send Max to Tucson.
JB did mention a need in the pen but does that definitly mean that Max wouldn’t start and EdGon be moved to the pen? I mean, part of the reason for an overused pen is due to EdGon’s inability to chew up innings as a starter. He’s averaging less than 5 IP per start.
by foulpole on
Apr 27, 2008 8:30 PM EDT
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Why is the Pen Tired?
Reposting what I put in Nick’s blog:
The D Backs rank 15th out of 16 NL in innings by the bullpen through yesterdays 13 inning game
The Pen has thrown 75 innings through the first 24 games, and the only team that has thrown fewer bullpen innings are the Cardinals
As for our division rivals:
Col, SD, and SFO rank 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in most bullpen innngs with 91, 90 and 87 respectively and LA ranks 9th with 81
So Melvin hasn’t done anything wrong here at all. However, my question is why are the bullpen arms so tired if they’ve haven’t worked that many innings. ? Is it just a matter of the last few days?
by shoewizard on Apr 27, 2008 9:16 PM EDT 0 recs
That was my first question
I’ve actually been very pleased with Melvin’s bullpen management thus far (with a few notable exceptions).
it’s easy to spread the work around when the pitching is going well, but to Melvin’s credit, he’s done it.
Chad Qualls has thrown the most innings at 14 1/3. He’s tied for 24th most innings thrown among relievers – and 2/3rds of his innings came on one pitch.
The full bullpen rankings – IP – league rank – 162 game pace (IPx6.5),
C. Qualls – 14.1 – t. 24 – 91.2,
B. Medders – 11.2 – t. 63, – 76,
B. Lyon – 11 – t. 81 – 71.6,
T. Pena – 10.1 – t. 107 – 67,
J. Crew – 9.2 – t. 127 – 63,
Y. Petit – 7.2 – t. 168 – 50,
D. Slaten – 7.1 – ... – 47.2,
Games – league rank
C. Qualls – 13 – t. 4,
B. Lyon – 12 – t. 25
T. Pena – 11 – t. 49
J. Crew – 11 – t. 49
B. Medders – 10 – 88
D. Slaten – 9 – t. 122
Y. Petit – 6 – t. 186
Just giving it a cursory comparative glance, it seems to be the main difference between our bullpen and the rest of the NL West is that they’ve already used eight or nine different guys. I hope it’s just a matter of the last few days, because all but Qualls and Slaten are right on pace to pitch a reasonable amount of innings and have already shown in their history that they can throw that many innings. Slaten doesn’t have the ML track record, but obviously should hold up to 50-60 innings. Qualls may need to be backed off a bit, but that appears to be part of their plans.
Part of me really likes the philosophy behind this move. You won’t really have a long man, but eventually there should be seven pitchers in the ‘pen that BoMel would be comfortable using in non-blow out/non-extra innings game. A more even distribution of innings would go a long way towards limiting the top end’s workload.
But, I think the greater good is to have Scherzer starting. Either here or in Tucson, both would be fine by me. If he’s being called up purely in a relief capacity, I hope to god it’s temporary, but as we’ve seen in New York this season – it can be really hard to take a young gun out of the bullpen if he’s having great success.
by dahlian on
Apr 27, 2008 10:14 PM EDT
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Colorado and San Diego are only 2nd and 3rd? I would have thought a 22 inning game would have been a big edge. Who’s first?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."
by kishi on
Apr 27, 2008 11:02 PM EDT
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Pirates -
They’ve played in four extra-innings games and their starters go less than 5 1/3 innings per game (with a 6.26 ERA).
by dahlian on
Apr 27, 2008 11:43 PM EDT
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Ah. That’ll do it.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."
by kishi on
Apr 28, 2008 12:02 AM EDT
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If he's in the bullpen when does he come into the game?
I still know how to spell Dirk, M-V-P
by srdmad on Apr 27, 2008 9:57 PM EDT 0 recs
Some info from Steve Gilbert.
“Primarily, the next few days, the thing that he brings is if we do have a long game he can pitch some innings,” Arizona general manager Josh Byrnes said. “He also has some experience pitching in a shorter role, most recently in the Fall League.”
So, do we take from this that if he’s needed out of the pen for “the next few days” that is how he will be used and if he is not needed then he get’s Ed-it’s-Gon’s next start?
“In the long term, I think with any pitcher we would sort of give starting every opportunity to be successful,” Byrnes said. “He’s responded. He’s really done quite nicely. We’ve gotten him through the system in Double-A and in Triple-A and even in Spring Training. We’re optimistic that he can be a quality Major League starter, and probably prefer that that’s the focus at this point.”
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080427&content_id=2600387&vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari
by foulpole on
Apr 27, 2008 10:15 PM EDT
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Edgar is due to make his next start on Tuesday.
We have:
Mon Haren
Tues Edgar
Wed RJ
Over “the next few days” who is most likely to need a big chunk of IP from the pen?
by foulpole on
Apr 27, 2008 10:50 PM EDT
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It sounds to me as if the FO is looking at Scherzer less as a pure reliever and more as a mid-game starter, so to speak, coming in behind EdGon in the fifth or sixth. It should take some pressure off EdGon – if he can knock off four, maybe five decent innings, he can hit the showers with a clean conscience.
by peachy rex on
Apr 28, 2008 11:03 AM EDT
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I still think that I would rather see Max start over EdGon. How much worse can he do?
by foulpole on
Apr 29, 2008 1:36 AM EDT
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It's not really
a question of “how much worse can he do”. It’s a question of whether or not that would be the best use of his already-significant talent.
"Juan Cruz has Freddy Krueger stuff. Welcome to Elm Street." -- Mark Grace
by DbacksSkins on
Apr 29, 2008 2:31 AM EDT
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Maybe the FO is just putting a positive spin on the fact that they feel Max is a better option than EdGon?
by foulpole on Apr 28, 2008 12:53 AM EDT 0 recs
Yep
I see him taking over from Medders as the bridge to our 7-8-9 guys.
I think with Medders throwing 2 innings and Petit throwing 3 on Saturday, they thought they might need a long reliever for Sunday and today. Maybe. :)
by paqs on Apr 28, 2008 12:42 PM EDT 0 recs
Role. =)
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
by kishi on
Apr 30, 2008 2:11 AM EDT
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I was gonna say....
wait, who you callin’ a tool?
"Juan Cruz has Freddy Krueger stuff. Welcome to Elm Street." -- Mark Grace
by DbacksSkins on
Apr 30, 2008 3:22 AM EDT
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Interesting. Fox Sports reports that Scherzer was called up on Saturday, after the Diamondback’s second straight loss. Uh, no.
I did laugh at the comment below by one of the readers: “The Dbacks should not be allowed to do this, it is unfair to other teams in the bigs.”
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."
by kishi on Apr 28, 2008 3:09 PM EDT 0 recs
I know what they meant
If you give up 8 runs to that AA lineup, you should be charged with 2 losses :)
by paqs on
Apr 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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Pitch Edgar for 4 innings and Scherzer for 4.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on Apr 28, 2008 6:10 PM EDT 0 recs
IMO, start Max and let him go until he’s done. We may not even need Ed-it’s-Gon.
by foulpole on
Apr 29, 2008 1:39 AM EDT
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I am hoping that we get a chance to see Scherzer sometime this week. If not as relief tonight, then maybe BoMel will let him start if Micah can’t go. Give the Mets a new pitcher to look at. Didn’t Webby make his debut against the Mets? We seem to have good luck debuting pitchers against them. ;-)
by SongBird on Apr 29, 2008 4:54 PM EDT 0 recs
So, after tonight’s game, does anyone still feel that Max shouldn’t be in the rotation instead of Ed-is-Gon?
by foulpole on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 AM EDT 0 recs
geez… I told you Bo-Mel was going to put him in the pen… and I told you it was a bad idea. Wish we wouldn’t have wasted a game to figure that out, but he should get it right now.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
by njjohn on
Apr 30, 2008 8:25 AM EDT
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I would be surprised if BoMel made that decision in a vaccum but it sounds like the org has figured it out. Ed-is-Gon from the rotation!
by foulpole on
Apr 30, 2008 10:50 PM EDT
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I am so sad I missed the debut. Anyone know if there is any video anywhere? I am definitely up for at least giving Scherzer a shot at the rotation. Please, give Scherzer a chance. At this point can it be worse?
Off to look at the game thread for Scherzer reaction.
by SongBird on Apr 30, 2008 1:49 AM EDT 0 recs
I’ll sum up the general reaction to Scherzer’s appearance in one word for you: Wooooooooooooooh!
He had a great outing.
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
by kishi on
Apr 30, 2008 2:10 AM EDT
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Thanks
Yeah, that is indeed the reaction I read. Darn. This is just not a good week for DBacks watching for me. I won’t be able to actually see a game until Sunday.
But, I would be around Monday. So, if BoMel feels like giving Scherzer a start, Monday would be good….
by SongBird on
Apr 30, 2008 2:34 AM EDT
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That would be the obvious next date
It’s EdGon’s next scheduled start, since it looks like they are giving everyone an extra day off because of no game on Thursday – Micah on Friday, Webb on Saturday and Haren on Sunday. However, he only threw 47 pitches, so if they intend to use Scherzer out of the pen, he would be available for the Mets series, I imagine.
by Jim McLennan on
Apr 30, 2008 2:39 AM EDT
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Monday would be nice
I’ll be down in Phoenix by then, so I’d be able to catch it on TV….
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
by kishi on
Apr 30, 2008 2:40 AM EDT
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LOL
“Can it be worse?” We’re so spoiled as Dbacks fans. It’s April, we have a 5.5 game lead in the division, and the best record in baseball, and we’re going to complain about our 5th starter.
Anyway, would you like a summary of Max Scherzer’s big league debut? Imagine 4.1 innings of pure kickassness. Now double the kickassness.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
Apr 30, 2008 3:32 AM EDT
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Sigh
Must have been great to be able to offset the loss with so much kickassness.
LOL about the “Can it be worse”. Yeah, I know we are spoiled. But, it kind of sucks going into every 5th game 99.9% sure that you are going to lose. Especially when you are pretty sure in the other 4 games that you have a good shot to win. At least let me feel like we might not lose.
by SongBird on Apr 30, 2008 3:58 AM EDT 0 recs
Well
EdGon had been decent up until tonight…. 1-1 with a 4.66 ERA coming into the game.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
Apr 30, 2008 4:03 AM EDT
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I still always felt like we were going to lose when he started.
by SongBird on
Apr 30, 2008 4:17 AM EDT
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We won 2 of his 3 starts, not exactly a bad return for any pitcher.
by paqs on
Apr 30, 2008 4:47 AM EDT
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If you can win
Half the games pitched by your #5 starter, you are doing VERY well.
by Jim McLennan on
Apr 30, 2008 1:20 PM EDT
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Edgar is the weakest link on our roster and is out of options. I would love to hear that the org was able to deal him somewhere.
by foulpole on
Apr 30, 2008 10:56 PM EDT
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We need
Ed Gon a thousand times more than we need Robbie Hammock.
Besides that, with Scherzer starting we definitely need him as a long man. In addition to all the normal young pitcher warnings, he’s a pitcher with a history of not working past six innings and now he’s going to be facing big leaguers with a 90 pitch cap.
But maybe once the front office finishes your first recommendation and trade Connor Jackson for Tony Clark, they can turn their focus to dealing Gonzalez.
by dahlian on
May 1, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
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Foulpole, I’ve got to admit, I had the same feelings in the heat of that game… but honestly that was more frustration with BoMel than with EdGon… but EdGon has proved a valuable enough commodity and shouldn’t be banished to the waiver wire yet (no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade right now).
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
by njjohn on
May 1, 2008 9:07 AM EDT
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You wrote:
but honestly that was more frustration with BoMel than with EdGon
Maybe the org was giving Edgar one last chance to save his temporary starting job? I was an advocate of giving the start to Max over EdGon.
you wrote:
...but EdGon has proved a valuable enough commodity and shouldn’t be banished to the waiver wire yet (no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade right now).
Above, in this thread, I wrote:
I would be pretty surprised if DD doesn’t get his job back when he returns. That would give us Webby, Haren, RJ, Micah and DD. So, as far as the arb issue, my guess would be the Max goes back down when DD is activated so no biggie there. EdGon is out of options so unless Max was tearing it up and we could deal EdGon then it would make sense to send Max to Tucson.
BTW, if EdGon is such “a valuable enough commodity” then why would there be “no chance we could get anything of value for him in trade..”
I never said that he should be sent to the waiver wire and there is still time before DD returns but I would hope that the org is shopping him pretty hard right now.
by foulpole on
May 1, 2008 3:39 PM EDT
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The point is
that a serviceable 6th starter like EdGon, who has experience and willingness in coming out of the ‘pen, is more valuable to us than anyone we could get for him in a trade.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 2, 2008 1:35 AM EDT
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.......
That’s a very impressive line of argument you’ve got. How can I possibly contradict that??
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 2, 2008 3:34 AM EDT
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It's official
PHOENIX (AP)—Once he made it to the big leagues, Max no time in earning a spot in the Arizona Diamondbacks’ rotation.The hard-throwing right-hander will start Monday when Arizona is home against the Philadelphia Phillies, Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said before Wednesday’s game against Houston.
Scherzer will take Edgar Gonzalez’s spot. Gonzalez will go to the bullpen.
Melvin said the decision was "based on some pretty good results that we saw."
Maybe we can send Ed-it’s-Gon to Texas? He can be reunited with the worst pitcher that we had on the roster.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsX_qzwJUVOCW6LC9YBnUP0Q0bYF?slug=ap-diamondbacks-scherzer&prov=ap&type=lgns
by foulpole on Apr 30, 2008 10:48 PM EDT 0 recs
Manager Bob Melvin and Josh Byrnes, the team’s general manager, met just after the D-backs lost, 6-4, to the Astros and made the decision.“It was a very short meeting,” Melvin said on Wednesday only hours before his club closed its three-game series against Houston.
by foulpole on
May 1, 2008 12:05 AM EDT
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In the future, to prevent the scroll bars from appearing,
could you just provide web addresses in html link form?
Like this?
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 12:16 AM EDT
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Do you not know the html?
If not,
type out the word you want to be the link. For example, “Story”. Then, highlight the text and click on the little Link button above—the little chain symbol next to the blockquote. A window will pop up asking you the web address. Enter it. Presto, it’s written the html code for you: Story
I just write the html myself because I can do it faster using the keyboard than using the keyboard and mouse, but YMMV.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 12:48 AM EDT
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Well done.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 1:29 AM EDT
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+1
for using an ex-Hoya, by the way.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
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+1 to both of you
Skins for teaching and foulpole for learning. Beers all round! :-)
by Jim McLennan on
May 1, 2008 1:39 AM EDT
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since we're doing tech support
how do you post pictures into the comments? I’ve just been linking them
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on
May 1, 2008 3:09 PM EDT
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Again, if you don't know the html offhand,
SBN 2.0 writes it for you. All you have to do is click on the little picture of the tree (labeled “Image”) above and to the right of the chain button. A window will pop up asking for the image address. Put the address of the picture in the dialog box and then press okay. The html has now written an image into itself.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 3:51 PM EDT
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but if it isn't web hosted
how would I upload one?
Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.
by seton hall snake pit on
May 1, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
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Do you have a Flickr account or something similar?
I’m not positive, but I believe regular members can upload pictures and such to the SnakePit server… not sure, though. I’ll have to look into it.
Max Scherzer is all out of bubblegum.
by DbacksSkins on
May 1, 2008 4:30 PM EDT
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If not, Photobucket.com is your friend. They’ll even give you the HTML code to post the picture, I believe.
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
by kishi on
May 1, 2008 4:39 PM EDT
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Yep.
Photobucket’s what I use, and it works just fine.
by Azreous on
May 1, 2008 5:10 PM EDT
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So, is this right? On Monday, when Scherzer starts, the DBacks will be starting their 1st round draft picks from 2003, 2004, 2005 & 2006? I suppose I could look this up, but I am too lazy. But weren’t CoJack, Drew, Upton and Scherzer all the #1 pick for the DBacks in their respective years? That’s kind of amazing.
by SongBird on May 1, 2008 4:43 AM EDT 1 recs
good stuff...
and it shows the remarkable success of the organization in drafting. Heck, with Scherzer and Owings in the rotation, we might even be (ever so slightly) shaking our reputation as not able to draft/develop arms.
"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck
by njjohn on
May 1, 2008 9:10 AM EDT
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With 60% of our rotation home-grown? Yeah, that should at least help shake that reputation.
"Hold on a minute, there are three important, brilliant, and complicated reasons why you should listen to me."
by kishi on
May 1, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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