Would you trade Brandon Webb for John Smoltz?

by agentmon on Apr 21, 2008 12:46 PM EDT Comment 72 comments

That is the post on the Braves SB Nation site today?? I'm Brandon's agent... What do you think?? This is what I wrote on the Braves SB Nation site......

Hey gang, glad to be involved! I am Brandon’s agent, Jonathan Maurer, msmsports.net and while I think John Smoltz is a LEGEND in Atlanta and will always be one of the best, Webby LOVES to pitch in Atlanta! Brandon has “three years left w/ AZ” (‘08, ‘09, option in 2010). While Brandon LOVES AZ and hopes to bring the World Series back to the Valley, the D-backs brass and Brandon will have to agree on “fair value” in the next 12 months. If we don’t come to an “agreement,” Webb COULD be on the block after this season. Orlando Hudson is a premier 2B, but he turned down a contract extension and now almost assuredly will be gone from AZ after 2008. Brandon would command, in many opinions, the highest free agent contract ever given to a pitcher if he becomes a free agent after 2010. THAT IS NOT WHAT MOTIVATES BRANDON, but getting a “fair” deal IS important! He still calls Eastern KY his home and if you were to meet him out at the local tavern, he would hang out, buy you a beer and talk baseball all night. He is an “everyday guy” who happens to throw the heck out of a baseball. He WOULD fit with the Atlanta clubhouse, handsdown! Just one stat to throw at everyone…. Since the beginning of the 2006 seasons, Webb is 38-18 with a 2.34 ERA and a major league-high 500 1/3 innings.

LET'S KEEP WEBBY IN D-BACK COUNTRY!!

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this question is a no-brainer

the answer is NO

by dstorm on Apr 21, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

seems like a dumb question

B-Dub is THE face of the franchise to the fans who know the team. I think everyone would be upset to see Brandon go anywhere but here. If he gets to free agency and commands a large contract then pay the man. He’s slowly becoming the most dominant pitcher in baseball. I would be upset to see Brandon in any other jersey but a Diamondbacks one at any point in the rest of his career. He is the leader of this team and the personality and humbleness that one could only hope for in a superstar. I would venture to say that Webb would lose the respect that he commands if he were to turn his back on the team that made him the man he is today and vise versa. You’ve got to remember he was nearly out of baseball and the organization kept with him. He owes us as much as we owe him.

Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.

by seton hall snake pit on Apr 21, 2008 1:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha...

....heh…. hehehe…. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, that was good.

Thanks for the offer, Braves fans, but NO.

Maybe, if this is 2000 and Webby is just a glimmer in the Dbacks’ eye.

Josh Byrnes is a smart GM, and knows that—unlike closers, ace pitchers are NOT overrated in the least….

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No.

Hi, Jonathan – thanks for stopping by again. Here is the story in question, though it looks like some of us have already found it. It’s obviously much more of a hypothetical than a genuine suggestion. The key thing here is the age: Smoltz is 40, and while still a good pitcher, can only really go downhill. Webb is probably just coming in to his peak years and should remain, good health permitting, in the elite for the next few years.

Much though I love O-Dawg, I think Webb would be harder to replace: he’s the kind of player a team stumbles across once per generation and he is also younger than Hudson. I’ve no doubt the D-backs are already planning various options with regard to Webb. I’d certainly like to see something worked out sooner, rather than later. The good news is, the D-backs should be able to increase payroll in the coming years – this year is the last for Ortiz [Grrrr] and, almost certainly, Johnson, and they also get out from under the deferred salary debt.

On the other hand, if the only way to sign Webb is at full market value, I imagine the team will trade him. Might as well get some prospects [and we can expect something significantly better than the haul the A’s got for Haren] and take our chances in the market. That wouldn’t be in Brandon’s best interests since [stop me if I’m wrong, because you’d know if anyone did!] he doesn’t have trade veto rights. Cleveland = not so nice. :-)

All told, however, I’m optimistic. Both Webb and Josh Byrnes seem like straight-up guys, so I expect they (and you, of course!) will negotiate in good faith, with the intention of working out something good for everyone. There are few teams with a brighter future than Arizona – I think we all know our ace is a big part of that. And if Brandon wants to buy me a beer and talk baseball, you know where to find me!

by Jim McLennan on Apr 21, 2008 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll have a coke

have him look me up when he’s in NYC. :-)

Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.

by seton hall snake pit on Apr 21, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll join

for beer and baseball?

Anyway, I’m really hoping that getting rid of The Unit’s and The Manatee’s contracts will allow us to extend Webb and/or Haren. Is Haren a FA after this season or next? (Too lazy to look it up myself)

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell no!

I can’t think of a single player in baseball that I would trade Webb for in a straight up, one-for-one deal. I consider Webb to be the one player that the Diamondbacks should do everything in their power to keep on the roster.

Now, as specifically trading for Smoltz? Swap a pitcher who’s hitting his peak for a pitcher that’s on the decline? That’s just crazy talk.

"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."

by kishi on Apr 21, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thinking about it, this question does make a lot more sense from the perspective of a Braves fan. There, you’re considering burning tradition for future success.

"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."

by kishi on Apr 23, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I just had an aneurysm.

Nothing against Smoltz, who’s always been a favorite of mine, but this is about 20 days too late on the calendar.

Let’s see. Jair Jurrjens, Jeff Francoeur, Rafael Soriano and Brian McCann for Webb? Maybe now we’re talking.

by Azreous on Apr 21, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another trade they mentioned at Talking Chop

is Francoeur for Upton, straight up.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

another NO

by dstorm on Apr 21, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the epitome

of a no-brainer.
NO!

We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Apr 21, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No way!

Not even a discussion!

by DiamondbacksWIn on Apr 21, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not enough alcohol in Arizona for this trade to ever make any sense.

The fact is at some point you are going to have to open up the checkbook and pay players large sums of money. I know we aren’t going to see Hudson in Arizona next year. He is a great player and one of the top 2B in the league but he is hitting that age when hitters begin to lose some productivity with age. Hudson will probably get a contract for 3 years around 8 million a year. Is Hudson worth 8 million when he is pushing 35? For the record, I would rather have Hudson on the books for 8 million in 2010 rather than Byrnes.

While hitters normally enter their prime 26-29, pitchers peak in their early 30’s. Which Webb will be entering when his current contract is up. The guy is the best pitcher in the NL and his adjusted ERA numbers are sick. You save Hudson’s 8 million and give it to Webb.

Webb is going to get paid and he is worth it. He is never on the DL and money in the bank every fifth day.

For fun, compare his numbers to Zambrano, Webb blows his doors off numbers wise with the added benefit that Webb isn’t a moron. Big Z just got 92 million over 5 years, Webb is worth more.

by Augie's Army on Apr 21, 2008 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Um...

...I’m fairly certain Hudson will get quite a bit more than 8 mil a year.

The funny thing about comparing Z and Webby is that every year Zambrano brags about how he’s going to win the CY. Webby doesn’t say anything, he just wins.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 21, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't see how

the D’Backs are going to pay for Webb, Haren, Owings, Upton, and Young. These guys probably won’t be on this team together for the next ten years or so.

I still know how to spell Dirk, M-V-P

by srdmad on Apr 21, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ten years?

Has any current major-league team had five players together on it for the past ten years? I think even the Yankees – the richest baseball franchise on the planet – have only three players who’ve been there for a decade [Rivera, Jeter and Posada], and I can’t see the next longest [Mussina and Giambi] joining that club. Nice though it would be to hang on to every one of our up-and-coming potential stars, it just isn’t realistic. There will be some hard decisions coming up in due course with regard to who stays and who goes. You can probably also add in Jackson and Reynolds to that list as well…

by Jim McLennan on Apr 21, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is all the more reason

for us to hurry up and win a WS ASAP!!

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young is locked up until 2013

with his new contract extension so he is taken care of. Owings still has a few years before he becomes a UFA and the same goes for Upton. Anyone think Upton would be willing to sign a Longoria type contract? I think this would be moronic for Upton’s personal finances but great for the D-Backs.

I used Robinson Cano’s 7.5 million as my baseline for O-Dog getting 8 million in free agency. Cano is signed thru 2011 at 7.5, and Cano is just entering his prime at 25 while being a bigger threat at the plate. Hudson is the better defensive player but he is 7 years older. Plus, 8 million would make Hudson the second highest paid 2B in MLB next year behind Chase Utley.

What kind of money do you think Hudson will get on the FA market?

by Augie's Army on Apr 21, 2008 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Omar Minaya LOVES O-Dog and will give him 9-10M a year to pay there in 2009 and beyond.. Just my educateds guess… As far as the comparison to Zambrano.. I have talked to at least 20 GM’s that would take Webb over Zambrano. Brandon WANTS to stay in AZ, and while he doen’t need Santan’a #’s, he will get that and more if he goes. CC will get 18-19M a year if he stays in Clev and 22-23M a yr if he goes. While Peavy’s last deal is 17.3 AAV, look for CC, Beckett, Webb to get more.

by agentmon on Apr 21, 2008 7:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Luis Castillo just signed a 4 year 25 million extension with Omar.

Can he really go out and spend another 30 million on another 30-something 2B (O-Dog) without the New York press tearing him apart? I am assuming the Mets turn it around and win the East this year. If not, is Omar even calling the shots for the Amazins’ next year? I personally think Willie takes the fall if the Mets don’t make the playoffs this year.

I think almost every GM would take Webb over Zambrano when given the choice. From a fan’s perspective you take Unit’s 13 million, Hudson’s current 6 million and find the rest needed to extend Webb. The option for 2010 is a club option correct?

by Augie's Army on Apr 21, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are Webby’s numbers as good as they are without O-Dawg’s (and others) D?

BTW, agentmon, I find this strange way to promote your client. Care to enlighten me?

by foulpole on Apr 22, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is part of the reason

I think trying to resign O-Dawg might just be worth the effort.

Webb’s ERA before Orlando Hudson: 3.35
Webb’s ERA since Hudson joined the Dbacks: 2.99

Of course, you’d expect a guy’s ERA to get better over time, but still—Webby jumped from a 3.54 ERA in 2005 to a 3.10 ERA in his Cy Young season of 2006.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most likely just age improvement, I think

Here’s Webb’s Fielding-Independent Pitching ERA [FIP[, from the Hardball Times:
2004 4.15
2005 3.42
2006 3.20
2007 3.19

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's very possible,

however, as I was saying at Talking Chop, since Webby is a groundball pitcher and not a strikeout artist like… say, John Smoltz, FIP seems like it would be somewhat less relevant in this case. When RJ is pitching, you want to see him strike out every guy, since that’s what he does. With Webby, I’d like to see him get 27 groundball outs—because that’s what HE does.

According to Hardball’s stats, Webby’s FIP was 4.15 in ‘04 and 3.42 in ‘05, yet his actual ERA only dropped 3.59 to 3.54; while his FIP in ‘06 was 3.20 but his traditional ERA plummeted to 3.10.

As much as I would like to think that it’s entirely age improvement, I do think that in the case of a sinkerball pitcher like Webby, great fielders like O-Dawg play a very important role.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, club option,

$8.5 million club option for 2010. There’s a buyout, now up to $1.5m [it started at 500K in 2006 and increases by that each time Webb finishes in the Cy Young top five], but I really don’t think that’ll happen! I suspect that any contract extension could involve a renegotiation of the remaining couple of years, and lead to a pay increase there – $6.5m in 2009 and the $8.5m in 2010, as under the current contract, seem remarkably cheap.

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have to love me saying “educated guess” and spelling educated as educateds… my bad

by agentmon on Apr 21, 2008 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Allow me to join the chorus : No. The key point is what Jim noted above – Smoltz, though still pitching well, is on the very edge of geezerdom. Even if one rated them equally at this precise moment (which I wouldn’t), Byrnes would have to be a blithering idiot to make that trade straight-up. And there’s been nothing in his career to date to suggest such a thing.

Really, unless finances become a crucial issue, I don’t see how anyone is worth a straight-up trade for Webb.

by peachy rex on Apr 21, 2008 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

foulpole… Brandon doesn’t need any “promoting” if you will. I just enjoy chatting with other D-back fans as much as the next guy. I just happen to work for Brandon Webb. Jim has a great site here, so I enjoy stopping by every once in awhile. All the best… Jonathan

by agentmon on Apr 22, 2008 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Brandon doesn’t need any "promoting"

True dat. I think 38-18 with a 2.34 ERA since the start of 2006 largely negate the need for any kind of advertising campaign. :-) Glad you like the site, you’re always welcome.

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2.34?

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2.99

I think the figure should be.

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright.

Slightly more believable….

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

appreciate you stopping by

always fun to talk to guys on the “inside”

Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.

by seton hall snake pit on Apr 22, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Thanks a lot for stopping by, Jonathan. Everytime you do, it’s both interesting and enlightening.

You should think about joining us for a gameday thread sometime. Say…. when your client is trying to go 5-0? ;-)

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jonathon, A Question

Would you consider something similar to the extension Jake Peavy got this past offseason to be fair market value?

Contract info from Cots blog site:

Jake Peavy rhp
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
3 years/$52M (2010-2012), plus 2013 club option

signed extension 12/12/07
10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13: $22M club option ($4M buyout)
full no-trade clause for 2010, may block trades to 14 clubs in 2011 and 8 clubs in 2012 (also earns 10-and-5 rights in 2012)
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
o 05:$0.75M, 06:$2.5M, 07:$4.75M, 08:$6M, 09:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout)
o full no-trade clause 2008-09
o signed extension 2/05 (avoided arbitration)
o escalators (IP & Cy Young votes) may increase 2008 salary to $6.5M & 2009 option to $11M
o award bonus: $25,000 for All Star selection
1 year/$0.35M (2004), 3 /04
1 year/$0.305M (2003) 3/03
drafted 1999 (15-472)
agent: Barry Axelrod
ML service: 5.101

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's below market value.

The Monster of Mobile took what looks like a pay cut to stay with the Padres.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a likely yardstick

Johan Santana lhp
6 years/$137.5M (2008-13), plus 2014 club option

08:$19M, 09:$20M, 10:$21M, 11:$22.5M, 12:$24M, 13:$25.5M,
14:$25M club option ($5.5M buyout)
full no-trade clause
$5M deferred annually at 1.25% compound interest (payable June 30 seven years after season in which salary was earned), reducing present-day value of package to $123.1M
award bonuses: $0.5M-$1.5M for Cy Young (varies based on number won), $0.25M each for MVP or World Series MVP, $0.1M each for All Star selection, LCS MVP, post-season MVP, post-season All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger
2014 club option becomes player option if Santana:
- wins Cy Young award from 2008-13 and finishes second or third in the Cy Young vote in one other season
- ranks second or third in Cy Young vote in any 3 seasons, 2008-13
- is on the active roster for the final 30 days of 2013 season, and:
  o pitches 215 innings in 2013, or
  o pitches 420 innings in 2012-13, or
  o pitches 630 innings in 2011-13

the party holding the 2014 option must exercise it by Nov. 15, 2013
if 2014 option is Santana’s and he declines it, he receives no buyout
perks: hotel suite on road trips, 15-person suite for 2008 home games
Santana to donate $0.25M annually to Mets charity

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jim, two KEY differences between Santana and Webb

1.) Santana only had one more year to go before he hit free agency at the time of his extension. He had more service time, and was closer to free agency than Webb is now, or will be even after the conclusion of 2008

2.) Santana signed for ages 29-34 seasons, with option for age 35.

I think probably something IN BETWEEN Peavy and Santana is the most appropriate level, when you take into account service time, and where they are in the career cycle.

NOTE: Peavy signed 2 years prior to hitting free agency, which is the same time frame we all are talking about Webby signing in should he be extended after the conclusion of the 2008 season

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is always a tradeoff

Of course if Peavy opted to pitch with the Padres through the end of 2009, (they certainly would have picked up his option) and then decided to become a free agent, and he didn’t get hurt prior to free agency, then he would have gotten more than the additional 4 years 70 million that he got from 2010-2013

Likewise, If Webb does not sign an extension, AND remains healthy through the end of 2010, then he is likely to get more than he would if he signs now.

But you never know in this busines. SECURITY is a big concern, especially for a pitcher.

Another thing to consider: If Webby does not hit free agency until after the 2010 season, he will be signing a contract starting with his age 32 season for 2011. It is my sincerest hope that Webby has a long long career, such as a Greg Maddux. But how many teams are going to give a 6 or 7 year deal that would be “record breaking” for a pitcher’s ages 32-38 ?

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

With the dearth of quality starters hitting free agency these days,

for a pitcher with Webby’s consistency and no history of injury concerns, I’d say quite a few.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that’s the thing – even with the dreadful salutary example of Kevin Brown’s zombie contract before them, the pitching market has been so lousy the last couple of years that even a moderately desperate front office might be willing to roll the dice. When you’re talking about a business that gives chaps like Ed Wade continued employment, anything is possible. (‘Nolan Ryan wants to pitch again? Here’s fifty mil!’)

by peachy rex on Apr 22, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can you give me an example.....

Of a pitcher aged 32 getting a 6 year deal? I think that would be pretty amazing really. The only one I can think of getting that long a deal is Kevin Brown, who was 34 when he signed that long contract with the Dodgers, and that became an albatross and cautionary tale for many teams.

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not really relevant

because these days, teams are doing everything they can to resign their own pitchers, rather than letting them hit FA. That’s a pretty new development, and one that’s inflating contracts for pitchers all across the board.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way,

if Atlanta were to throw in something more credible—like, say, a bowl of piping hot Waffle House grits, rather than just proposing a straight up trade, it’d make quite a bit more sense.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have to say

The question of whether or not one would trade Smoltz for Webb is quite ludicrous. One is 29, locked up for the next 3 years and in the prime of his career.

The other is over 40, and nearing the end, and makes a lot more money.

There isn’t anyone on the planet, other than a dumb roto owner, that would even consider such a trade. I never have quite gotten the point of posing such a question, other than to simply generate discussion of Webb’s contract status, for whatever purposes Jonathon might have.

I mean…..Webb for Smoltz…....serious?

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ludicrous indeed… but it’s got twice as many looks as my much more sensible question about Chipper’s HOF status. Sometimes ludicrous makes for good conversation.

"There are only two seasons: winter and baseball"
-- Bill Veeck

by njjohn on Apr 22, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A good question about Chipper

But he does play for another team. I’m sure you’d have got a much bigger response on Talking Chop. :-) In Jonathan’s defense, it wasn’t him who posted the original suggestion of trading Smoltz for Webb though. I was just reading the comments over on Chop about it, and they seem to think there it’s much closer to being a fair trade than we do here. However, Skins and Seton, out honored ambassadors, forgot to mention things like park-factors which skew things towards Smoltz if you try and compare raw stats. Take that into account, and Smoltz’s ERA+ over the past two seasons is 127 and 137, while Webb’s is 152 and 156.

But any trade is not about what they’ve done in the past, it’s what they’ll do in the future, and that is where Webb will likely kick Smoltz’s ass. The latter will be 41 next month, and simply can not be expected to sustain his current level of performance for much longer.

by Jim McLennan on Apr 23, 2008 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I mentioned Chase vs. Turner

as it regards HR/9 rates. (Hmmm…. Chase vs. Turner sounds like a SCOTUS case)

As the TC posters mentioned, this is much more of an emotional thing for them because Smoltzy is a lifelong Brave and a class act. For us, it’s all about the numbers and the ages.

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 23, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey gang, I will chime in more later, but while Peavy signed a good deal to “stay” in San Diego, it was clearly “below” what he could have made as a free agent. While there are some that would argue that years away from free agency is a factor, in Webb’s case, it really is not important to us. Brandon would LOVE to stay here and HE IS HERE until 2010 (they will pick up his option), but “fair” to us IS between Peavy and Santana (if we do a deal before 2009 season) to stay in AZ long term. The idea of “security” was a deciding factor in both of Webb’s last two deals, but this time around, that has zero bearing on the contract. D-backs ownership has seen the value of the franchise go from 238M to 379M in the last 4 years, attendance is up and the MLB TV network will bring Millions to each team. Unlike the NFL network, baseball got the cable companies to buy into MLB Network so it will be seen by EVERYONE. Josh Byrnes is a smart, smart man and he has a strong team in Peter Woodfork, Jerry Dipoto, and AJ Hinch (who are all future GM’s) so while there is negotiation to have in the future, the goal for Brandon and I is that everyone wins. “If a free agent,” Brandon gets 6 years, 24M a year, hands down. We WILL take less, but more than Peavy (who is a Max effort delivery guy). Here’s to another D-back win tonight! Thanks, Jonathan

by agentmon on Apr 22, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What about

something on the order of $19 mil a year, for 5 years, with a $23 mil club option for a 6th?

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ no-trade,

of course

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 22, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, if I held the check book

we wouldn’t have a hard time making a deal , as I obviously agree with this statement:

"fair" to us IS between Peavy and Santana

I think your client is a terrific pitcher, and I sincerely hope that he is a D Back for life. Although I have never had the pleasure to meet Brandon, I know several people that know him well, and the praise for him as a genuine, down to earth, nice person could not be more universal.

Best of luck to you Jonathon in making all us D Back fanboys and girls dreams come true.

by shoewizard on Apr 22, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the kind words. Brandon wants to be in AZ for his entire career! Brandon really enjoys the fans and people of Phoenix!

by agentmon on Apr 23, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm.....

you know, this is a really strange thread to me -

Why would the player agent for one of the premier NL pitchers be throwing out numbers or his client’s sentiments on a public message board – not that what is being said isn’t logical…. but if Santana doesn’t have a great year and Webb and / or Peavy tear it up….

I’m all for keeping Webb in Arizona, believe me. But not sure I’m comfortable with numbers being thrown around for our premier pitcher on a message board….. strange.

But it sounds like many of you have had previous interaction with Jonathon (ie agentmon). And it is a very interesting discussion – so I will regress back to silently observing from the dugout : )

by dstorm on Apr 22, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Slightly unconventional

to say the least.

by AZSEAfan on Apr 22, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing much said here

That we probably couldn’t largely have worked out:
a) Brandon likes it here in AZ
b) Atlanta would also be nice
c) Peavy and Santana are the most obvious comps.
d) Players want their slice of the record-breaking revenues.

All sounds reasonable to me. :-) As we saw with Eric Byrnes, public perceptions definitely can play into contract negotiations, and a savvy agent will use that to his advantage.

by Jim McLennan on Apr 22, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jim , Thanks for running a great site. Go D-backs, Go Webby! Have a great night my friend! Jonathan

by agentmon on Apr 23, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't skewer me

Could you imagine how even more dominating Webb would be in a home park such as Atlanta, SD, Shea, or Seattle? This is assuming that he could take our fine defensive infield with him, of course. While he doesn’t give up many fly balls, the ones he does would have even less of a chance of leaving the yard. The dude is just a stud and I feel very lucky to get to watch him pitch here. Even his “bad” nights, such as tonight, are still pretty damn fantastic.

by AZSEAfan on Apr 23, 2008 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for your trust in me dstorm. I am a small agent just trying to take care of some good young men. I call many of the folks on this blog friends and I welcome a handshake at anytime. I live in Cincinnati, but I get to AZ a fair amount. Have a great night! Jonathan

by agentmon on Apr 23, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keeping Webb in Sedona Red

I just cant imagine the D-backs without Webby. Lets hope JB and the front office work something out to keep Webb in sedona red. I think I speak for everyone when I say the D-backs wouldn’t be the same without him.

by J Up on Apr 22, 2008 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would venture to say that Webb would lose the respect that he commands if he were to turn his back on the team that made him the man he is today and vise versa. You’ve got to remember he was nearly out of baseball and the organization kept with him. He owes us as much as we owe him.

See, I don’t think so. It’s debatable whether he ever “owed” the D’backs anything. However, even if we accept that he did, I’d say he’s given us all we could ask. Furthermore, while people in Arizona may get bent out of shape if Webb left, do you really think the rest of the league would hold it against him? Think of all the surly creeps in sports who are portrayed as heroic. Is going somewhere to get more money going to turn Webb into a monster, especially considering his general quiet, classy attitude? I just don’t see it.

That said, I hope Webb is the Arizona ace for many years to come. I’d like O to be around for another contract, as well, but I’d rather have Brandon. Too bad both of those probably can’t happen.

by azshadowwalker on Apr 22, 2008 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said

...all of it.

by AZSEAfan on Apr 23, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IAWTC

"I was tied to a chair and he had a baseball bat. Pissing him off was the smart thing to do."

by DbacksSkins on Apr 23, 2008 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was just trying to be dramatic

:-D

I’ll tone it down a bit.

Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.

by seton hall snake pit on Apr 23, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Overall Philosophy

Interesting discussion of Webb and his future in Arizona, along with the future of O-Dawg. While it is very exciting to have such a good, young team, it seems apparent that there is not enough money to keep them all together for the next 5 years, let alone the next 10. We have Webb locked up through 2010. I think Haren is ours until about that time as well. CY is now locked up through 2013. Byrnes just signed for 3 years (through 2010). We have control of Jackson, Drew, Snyder, and Owings for a couple more years? before arbitration. I would guess we have control of Upton and Reynolds even longer than that. In the bullpen, I believe Lyon is an FA after this year – don’t know the status of Cruz, Pena, Qualls (if somebody has this info they could post, that would be very interesting).

So – it appears we are going to hit a huge wall in 3 – 4 years. There’s no way we’re keeping all these guys. It seems we probably have enough money to pick a few plums and signing them long term (Webb, Upton, Owings?). But that says to me all priorities should be on winning the WS by 2010 – after that the teams gets more expensive and probably worse. Comments?

by Craig from Az on Apr 23, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

that is a major problem with developing so many talents through the system. We can’t afford them all. I think it will most likely come down to who we think we can do without and signing a big 4 or so. The other’s will most likely be trade bait in the next few years. I expect Josh Byrnes to do what he needs to do to keep our team competitive for as long as possible. He’s done well so far, we’ll see what happens when we hit the money wall.

Baseball season, when everything becomes right in the world.

by seton hall snake pit on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stay competitive or go for it all?

That’s the tough decision I think we have to make. You can keep all these guys for the next 3 or 4 years (until they are arbitration eligible) and make a run for the WS. This would likely mean we get little or nothing from them in trade value.

The other option is to sign the core and trade away the others as they approach arbitration eligibility and re-stock the farm club.

I personally like the first option. Let’s try to win now, then we’ll rebuild again. I think that is the lot of the small market team.

by Craig from Az on Apr 23, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs