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How good is a #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 starting pitcher? The NL remix!

This was inspired by a piece over on Royals Review, which made an effort to establish typical values for ERA, etc. returned by starters #1 through #5. It got me to do something similar, albeit with a slightly different approach - and also for the National League, as for obvious reasons, Royals Reviews did it for the AL. They also only included the figures for the top five starters on each time, by number of starts, which excluded a number, generally quite significant, of games. For example, in Arizona, we had 21 games by starters outside the top five (Webb, Haren, Johnson, Davis, Owings). I wanted something that would also take those into account.

He's my methodology. 2,592 starts were made in the National League this year, by 165 different pitchers. Their ERAs as starters ranged from three pitchers who each made one start and allowed no earned runs, all the way down to the 36.00 returned by Adam Pettyjohn of Cincinnati, who allowed eight earned runs in the two innings he lasted during his sole appearance. Here's the list of all 165, ordered by ERA. Initially, my thought was to divide those 2,592 starts into five bands of 518. However, I don't feel that Mark Mulder's 0.1 IP outing was worth the same weight as each one of CC Sabathia's seven complete games.

So, instead, I used the 14,911 innings pitched by starters, and broke that down into five bands of 2,982 innings. Starting at the top of the ERA list, I worked my way down the list, summing up the innings thrown by the starters, until I got the end of that band.

Mulder     0.2  -> Total 0.2
Guzman 2.0 2.2
Valdez 2.0 4.2
Sabathia 130.2 135.1
Harden 71.0 206.1
Gallardo 24.0 230.1
... ... ...
Volquez 194.1 2615.1
Webb 226.2 2842.0
Haren 216.0 3058.0

So, the 2,982nd best inning was thrown by Dan Haren, whose ERA was 3.33. That or better, puts you in the top 20% of starters. The process was then repeated: the next slice covers innings 2,983-5,965, and goes down to the Padres' Chris Young. The third slice brings us to Yusmeiro Petit, and the fourth to Barry Zito. Everyone below that falls into the #5 category, or the mop-up bucket. Now, obviously, this is based purely on ERA, with all the imperfections it contains [park factors and defense are excluded]. It's also a sliding scale: nothing makes a pitcher with a 3.34 ERA - thus a "#2" - significantly worse than one with a 3.32, who falls into the top group. However, as a guide as to how pitchers should be considered "aces", it's a reasonable starting point. Here's the full breakdown for the NL:

Group Pitchers ERA range W-L
#1 #1-29 0.00-3.33 15.5-7.7
#2 #29-47 3.33-3.96 12.8-10.0
#3 #47-70 3.96-4.35 10.6-10.7
#4 #70-98 4.35-5.15 9.9-12.8
#5 #98-165 5.15+ 7.0-14.8

It's no surprise that the last group includes a lot more pitchers than the others, as it includes all the replacement level arms, used quickly then discarded. The top category also contains a number of names who threw too few innings to be generally considered "aces" - only five of the top twenty pitchers by ERA as a starter, threw more than a hundred innings [Sabathia, Santana, Lincecum, Peavy and Dempster]. For Arizona, Webb is a #1; Haren is on the #1-#2 cusp; Johnson is a #2; Davis a #3; and only Owings is lower, being a #5. That does back up the general view that our rotation was a strength.

The final column is the expected number of wins and losses for a pitcher in each group, based on 33 starts. This is based off the average records of each group. For example, the Group #1 pitchers had a cumulative record of 225-112 in 479 starts, which breaks down to fifteen or sixteen wins and eight losses, numbers with which you would be pretty happy, from any pitcher over a season. Note in particular the gap between a  #1 and a #2 in wins, is almost as much as that between a #2 and a #4. And if your #3 is better than .500, you're ahead of the curve there.

However, I also see that the gap at the bottom of the chart is equally as large as the one at the top. This means that a team will get just as much benefit - about three wins - by upgrading one slot in their rotation from a #5 pitcher to a #4 one, as by going from a #2 to a #1. The former approach will, needless to say, be a good deal more inexpensive - the likes of Tim Redding (10-11, 4.95 ERA for Washington) are a lot cheaper than someone you might actually have heard of. Equally, improving a team's defense might be more cost-effective than better pitching, with the added benefit that a rising tide of good glovework floats all boats, helping out every day, rather than every fifth game.

[A quick aside. While looking at those stats in my spreadsheet, I could also see which teams sent most and least starters to the mound. Arizona used eight in total, which is well below average - only Philadelphia had fewer, with seven, getting 145 games from their top five starters. The highest number went to San Diego, who tried fourteen different starters, just ahead of Pittsburgh's thirteen. I don't think it's too much of a coincidence that these teams had two of the three worst records in the league.]

For amusement, I also ran the same analysis over in the American League, using the 13,287.2 innings pitched by 145 different starters there. The methodology was the same, and the chart below shows the results, with the addition of an additional column - that shows the results obtained by Royals Review from their analysis

Group Pitchers ERA range RR ERA
#1 #1-26 0.00-3.49 0.00-3.49
#2 #26-52 3.49-3.99 3.49-4.03
#3 #52-72 3.99-4.54 4.05-4.53
#4 #72-93 4.54-5.47 4.54-5.44
#5 #94-145 5.47+ 5.48+

It's interesting to note how close the results are for my method - based on innings and including all 145 pitchers - and the RR approach, which took only 70 pitchers (the top five, measured by games started, for each AL team). It looks like the arms RR eliminated don't affect the final figures too much, because they a) throw only a small fraction of the innings, and b) are not all that much worse. The 70 most active pitchers made 14 or more starts, threw 85% of all AL innings and had an ERA of 4.30. The remaining 75 pitchers, threw 15% of the innings, with an ERA of 5.42. That's worse, but not as bad as I'd expect - I would have predicted something well into the #5 group rather than a poor #4.

2 recs  |  Comment 19 comments |

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Only eight starters?

I hadn’t thought about that, but that’s pretty impressive, given A) one of our starters went out for thyroid surgery, B) one of our starters was 44 years old at the start of the season, and C) we traded one of our starters mid-season.

"And a note to self that we must tread carefully if we wish not to give gratuitous offense, and even more carefully if we do wish to give it."
-Stephen Fry

by kishi on Oct 24, 2008 1:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, although...

I guess you missed the first sentence where I linked to the very piece on Royals Review and said it was the inspiration for the piece? Appreciate the link to the LL one: another different method. However, I was really looking for something more accessible to the casual fan, not involving statistics known by three people, that you’ll only find buried in the darker recesses, of the more geeky corners of the net. :-)

by Jim McLennan on Oct 24, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How our starters would rank

By the Lookout Landing system:

  1. Starter: Webb, Haren, Johnson, Scherzer
  2. Starter: Davis
  3. Starter: Petit (borderline 2-3), Owings
  4. Starter: EdGon
  5. Starter: None

Really? By that stat system, our worst pitcher (who sported a 1.74 WHIP) was a #4, and we had four #1 quality pitchers?

In comparison, by Jim’s system:

  1. Starter: Webb, Haren (borderline 1-2)
  2. Starter: Scherzer, Johnson
  3. Starter: Davis, Petit (borderline 3-4)
  4. Starter: None
  5. Starter: Owings, EdGon

"And a note to self that we must tread carefully if we wish not to give gratuitous offense, and even more carefully if we do wish to give it."
-Stephen Fry

by kishi on Oct 24, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Based on that, I'm going with my system

From their performances this year, I don’t regard Scherzer as a #1, Petit a borderline 2-3, or Owings a three. My gut instinct is Scherzer in particular is hideously over-valued because of his K-rate, which does tend to make a system like FIP drool.

by Jim McLennan on Oct 24, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to agree

I mean, we had some good performances from our starters, and Petit had that string of games in July and August where he was possibly good enough to be a borderline 2 or 3 starter, but overall, I think that the rankings by tRA+ over-rates our starters.

According to someone over at Lookout Landing, by the standard given there, 30 qualified pitchers counted as #1 starters. And we had three of them? Webb, Haren, and Johnson all rank in the top ten in baseball by tRA+.

Of course, Johan Santana (tRA+ of 117) ranks as a #2 starter, so…

"And a note to self that we must tread carefully if we wish not to give gratuitous offense, and even more carefully if we do wish to give it."
-Stephen Fry

by kishi on Oct 24, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't Sherzer pitching a bunch of relief innings? that will bring his ERA down lower than it would have been as a starter

and it’s also “wrong” to call someone with 50 IP a #1 or #2 guy. there’s more to being a #1 or #2 than a good ERA. you actually have to start a full season. at least i think most people would agree with that.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 24, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not my system

I was just classifying them by the tRA+ numbers, using the system given at Lookout Landing. Besides, even discarding Scherzer, everyone other than Webb and Haren is one or two spots higher, rotation-wise, than they should be.

"And a note to self that we must tread carefully if we wish not to give gratuitous offense, and even more carefully if we do wish to give it."
-Stephen Fry

by kishi on Oct 24, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only 19 IP in relief

About two-third of his innings were as a starter. But absolutely, small sample size caveats apply there. Appreciate the bump to the front-page over at BtB and the comment, by the way. :-)

by Jim McLennan on Oct 24, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think by definition tRA is less accurate than ERA...

…since tRA is an approximation of ERA given a normal defense. ERA is the one that actually happened.

What I think you mean to say is that tRA is a better predictor of future performance. That’s probably true, but for the purposes of this study largely irrelevant; you’re looking at a population of pitchers, at which point you’ve already solved the problems that tRA is trying to address by aggregation. (Assuming you have enough pitchers, you’re better off using ERA than tRA, in my opinion.)

What I would change about this study – and the others you link, if I remember them correctly – is grouping pitchers by their performance. Ideally what you do is look at the starters grouped by their actual slot in the rotation. If your opening day starter puts up a 4.90 ERA in his 30 or so starts, that should be a data point for the number #1 starters, not the number #5s.

by cwyers on Oct 24, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure i'd trust that teams to know who their best pitchers actually are

and rotations don’t always start the season in order form 1 through 5.

i do like your strategy of using ERA without falling prey to selective sampling to reduce the wide variance problem.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 25, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem you run into is that...

…you end up artificially setting the constraints when you use the same variable to control your inputs and outputs. If you define a fifth starter as a guy in the bottom fifth of performance in the league, that’s what you’re going to find at the end – you haven’t studied anything, and could have saved yourself a lot of trouble sorting pitchers by just finding the league average ERA and the standard deviation.

You have to sort your pitchers by something other than ERA, because that’s the thing you’re studying. I suggested one way – it’s not perfect, but I think a lot of the problems come out in the wash. (The biggest problem I have with it is how hard it is to implement.) You could also use a player’s preseason Marcels/PECOTA projection, or sort starters as 1-5 with FIP/tRA and then look at ERA on the other end.

by cwyers on Oct 25, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually, why not just use projections and stop there?

before the season, just look at each team’s projected rotation and just use projected ERA and innings (or FIP if you want to remove defense). i mean, that will probably give you as much insight as anything as to what types of pitchers teams feel they can count on in their rotations.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 28, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Results

Since you did this for each NL team. Do you have the breakdowns for the other 15 NL teams, or only the Diamondbacks?
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Oct 24, 2008 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Those stats

Were based on the entire NL, so you simply look at your starters’ ERA to see where about they fall. For the Dodgers, it’d be the following for those with more than five starts:

Group 1: Billingsley, Lowe
Group 2: Stoltz, Kuroda
Group 3: Kershaw
Group 4: Maddux
Group 5: Penny

by Jim McLennan on Oct 24, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to add

Average ERA for each group:
Group 1. 2.91
Group 2. 3.72
Group 3: 4.20
Group 4: 4.84
Group 5: 6.36

by Jim McLennan on Oct 24, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice research

Now, obviously, this is based purely on ERA, with all the imperfections it contains [park factors and defense are excluded].

One more “imperfection” to consider is the unbalanced schedule, which tends to counterbalance our local park factor.

We often hear what a good pitching division the NLW is, but there’s ample evidence it’s an even poorer hitting division. Not one lineup managed 100 OPS+. The Padres, arguably, had the best offense. I mean, the Padres? The best hitter on another squad was probably Bengie Molina. Our pitchers, indeed all the division starters, benefited a great deal from chucking in baseball’s worst division.

2008 Dback ERA (inside NLW): 3.74
2008 Dback ERA (outside NLW): 4.19

IOW, I think the various imperfections tend to even each other out, and your placements of Webb, Haren and Johnson sound about where they belong. Randy, for example, as a weak #2 (close to a #3) makes sense. He’s certainly not one of the top 20 starters in the game, as has been suggested elsewhere. With a 5.21 ERA outside the West, he could just as easily be #3.

by Diamondhacks on Oct 24, 2008 6:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Now, obviously, this is based purely on ERA, with all the imperfections it contains [park factors and defense are excluded]."

using ERA in stead of FIP or tRA would also remove a bunch of statistical noise, bringing the low groups and high groups more towards the mean. #1’s aren’t actually quite that good and #5’s really aren’t that bad. (at all — replacement level for starters is about a 5.75 ERA)

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 24, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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