Does Melvin actually deserve credit?

by peeklay on Aug 5, 2007 1:09 PM EDT Comment 21 comments

I am sorry if this has been covered already, but I have been away and didn't see anything recently.

I am not a huge fan of Melvin as a manager. I think he is adequate and does okay, but just not a big fan of some decisions (lineup dice, relief use, etc)

One thing I will have to give him credit for. After the Valverde meltdown in SD, he trotted the big man back out there in a 5-5 game in the bottom of the 10th. At first all I could think of was Brenly sending BK out for more abuse and a possible Donnie Moore situation, but then Jose shut them down and looked impressive doing it.

Now here we are a few days later and he has mowed through the 1-3 Dodgers on Friday and 3-5 Dodgers on Saturday in 1 run games.

Knowing how Valverde has melted down in the past, did that extra 10th inning help him get some mojo back and bring back his confidence? I guess no one knows, but at this point, I will have to concede to Melvin

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You'd like to give him credit

but you can't. He was merely going by the book and placing his closer into the situations he's supposed to be placed in.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Aug 5, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

One of those double-edged weapons

If Valverde had coughed up the game, we'd certainly be vilifying him for leaving the closer in. I don't think it was just "going by the book" though: it was the first time Papa Grande had thrown two innings in almost a year. Or if that was 'the book', then Melvin deserves credit for not leaving Valverde out there for a second inning when he blew the save against Atlanta on July 27 - we went on to win that game as well. One way or the other, Melvin deserves credit, I guess!

I do have to say, there must be something going on to explain why Arizona is performing so far above what the run differential would predict - we're now ten games better than we should be. I noticed some gnashing of teeth on our rivals' sites about that: none of them seem to be taking us seriously as contenders. Both the Padres and the Dodgers seem to be more concerned about each other than us. Which is just the way I like it, of course!

We could, very plausibly, reach the playoffs despite allowing more runs than we score. I don't know if that's ever been done before. The recent results have been a great example: Arizona has been outscored by two runs over the past seventeen games - but have a 13-4 record during that time. It's one of those things that's probably impossible to explain, so just kick back and enjoy the weeping and wailing of our rivals...

by Jim McLennan on Aug 5, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Obscure factoid

1997 SF Giants...RS 784 RA 793, final record 90-72, 1st place in NL West.

by AZSEAfan on Aug 6, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have finally learned to stop worrying...

and love the BoM(b)el.

While I find a lot of his game management decisions absolutely maddening, I'm not the type to say that he's only lucked out to get where. He's the Manager and he's the one that's empowered to make those decisions. He's not supposed to make all of his decisions based on "the book" or the splits readout. A manager has earned the right to be evaluated on his results and so far, they speak for themselves.

The most telling number to me was the team leading the league in pinch hit home runs, even though were in the bottom third of the league in overall homeruns. Arizona pinch hitters lead the league in OPS at .836 with next best team being Milwaukee's .788. Just about every bizarre decision he's made like pinch-hitting Montero in the ninth or Owings in the seventh has worked out in his favor. This isn't just BoMel being lucky. It's BoMel seeing things in the opponent and knowing his own player's strengths and weaknesses enough to be able to make gutsy decisions and have them work out.

There has been only one complaint that I still standby about him (besides his refusal to admit that Tony Clark should be used in pinch hitting situations only) is his overuse of the bullpen, but even that he's been better about of late as he's let pitchers work more than one inning with increasing regularity.

by dahlian on Aug 5, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rep this

Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Aug 5, 2007 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have not idea what this means...

by dahlian on Aug 6, 2007 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

am I the only person that finds the Kimshe moniker borderline racist?

I don't don't see how it's much different from a pejorative like Miguel Burrito or referring to CY as CW (the "w" stands for watermelon!). Maybe I've spent too much time around sensitive koreans, but just saying...

by dahlian on Aug 6, 2007 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, now that you mention it,

You're right. That IS a little racist.

It's like calling Takashi Saito "Takashi Sushi", or Russell Martin "Russell Maplesyrup".

Ok... granted, I DID refer to Martin as a "Canuck" last week. But it was in a joking tone. Like when I referred to Jim as a limey. And I apologized to all Canadians.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 6, 2007 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since you are offended

I will refer to BK Niedenfuer Kim as Mr. Kim, and no longer Kimshe.

Maybe I should have initially referred to him as B.K. Cabbage, since we were refering to various offensive and racially associated fruits and vegetables!

Here is an unofficial description:

Kim Chi is spiced, pickled cabbage. The cabbage is soaked and aged in a brine solution along with ginger, cayenne, garlic, radish, and celery. Kim chi is as ubiquitous in Korea as ketchup is in America.

I will try not to offend anymore...

LiveStrong - wear yellow; the truth is out there (X-Files); "Go with throttle up!" (Challenger Space Heroes); "bababooey to you all!" Howard (Sirius) fan.

by icecoldmo on Aug 6, 2007 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kimchi?

I thought that was already the reference...

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 6, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You think I don't know what Kimchee is?

Spend a year living with a Korean roommate roommate who keeps his own private stash in the refrigerator at all times and you'll learn what Kimchee is. All I'm saying is that one of the wonders of life (and the internet) is that they're no shortage of possible reasons to make fun of people, there's just no reason to default to racist/sexist daily double Kimshe. Niedenfuer Kim is a good example, although I for one would be happy to have a reliever with a career 112 ERA+ on my team. In the same way, I fully support any efforts by Byrnes to try and acquire Brad Lidge on the cheap. Those losses were huge and the blowups were dramatic, but it doesn't automatically negate everything else a pitcher has done in their career.

Kim is still a productive pitcher. He's a history of both clutch performance and unclutch performance. However, the prevalence of such visceral hatred on the part of so many DBacks fans (both before and after 2001) has always made me wonder how he would have been embraced by the community had he been another Joe Whitebread. The sad thing is, that most of the judgments made about Kim aren't because of his performance on the mound, it's because of how he looks on the mound. 2001 just gave all of the haters something to point to indiscriminately as a reason for all of their vitriol and an excuse to completely dismiss all of his excellent work both before and afterwards.

by dahlian on Aug 6, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want to support this opinon

I have ALWAYS sensed a racial overtone in many of the attitudes and comments towards and about Kim.
I am both offended and disappointed by them.
Good post Dahlian

by shoewizard on Aug 6, 2007 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Should we then call BoMel...

Dr. Strangelove? Since his decisionmaking is quite strange sometimes, but I love his managing in 1 run games...

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 5, 2007 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smelvin aka NOMOBOMEL

overall knowledge to manage is still sketchy. I think that he might actually be listening to his bench coach K Gibson.

K Gib still has the fire in his belly and the intensity to rip some of these mollycoddled players if need be. K Gib has the rings to show off his experience; how he played; and what he knows. That is where I give credence to the management of this team.

LiveStrong - wear yellow; the truth is out there (X-Files); "Go with throttle up!" (Challenger Space Heroes); "bababooey to you all!" Howard (Sirius) fan.

by icecoldmo on Aug 6, 2007 1:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And....

When BoMel was bench coach in 2001, he played a pretty big part in forming Bob Brenly's lineups. There's no shame in getting help from KGib. If BoMel IS, anyway.

2001, you might remember, was the year the Dbacks won some pretty big games in October and November...

Jeez.... the grass is ALWAYS greener with some of you people, isn't it?

We've just swept the Dodgers on the road, won 13 of 15 games despite being outscored, we have a crazy record in one run games, and you STILL want to complain about the management? WHAT would satisfy you people??

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 6, 2007 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another trek through the playoffs.

DbacksSkins:

Just so you know, I always prefer to be considered as the glass is half full. I am not much with grass being greener!

LiveStrong - wear yellow; the truth is out there (X-Files); "Go with throttle up!" (Challenger Space Heroes); "bababooey to you all!" Howard (Sirius) fan.

by icecoldmo on Aug 6, 2007 4:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well...

That's really a goal more for next year, but if we made the playoffs this year would you be satisfied with BoMel? Also, if not BoMel, who would you want to manage? KGib? That douchebag Joe Girardi?

Duly noted that you consider yourself an optimist. I would say that from your posts you seem more a moderate with a bit of a pessimist leaning, but that's just my opinion, of course.

Come on, Sandy Baby, loosen up. You're too tight.

by DbacksSkins on Aug 6, 2007 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your opinion is taken and noted!

LiveStrong - wear yellow; the truth is out there (X-Files); "Go with throttle up!" (Challenger Space Heroes); "bababooey to you all!" Howard (Sirius) fan.

by icecoldmo on Aug 6, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The reason we complain

is because it acts as a premptive strike. If we choke this division lead away most people would be feel more comfortable if they could look back and say "see I told you so". I think that's why we all criticize every move that is made, it's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Aug 6, 2007 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Manager

I see some things he is above average in like early in the year when Valverde looked shaky, he took him out & put Lyon in & visa versa. Most managers just leave them in until it's too late when a horse comes in for one inning. He definitely plays Tony Clark at first way too often though. Tony should definitely just be a bench player coming off in the 8th or 9th innings & 7th the earliest.

I can't give him too much credit though, for the most part I think the success is due to Eric Byrnes & the chemistry of this team. The ups & especially the downs I think are do to the emotional roller coaster of the young players. I believe this also goes for the individual games. The seem to give up "most" of the time when they are down by a large score, unless they fall upon some lucky breaks. I believe they were on the verge of giving up on the season until they got some wins just after the all star break. I believe this team should be about 20 games over .500 & they should be behind in run differential. The team just gets to low with the lows & I have to blame some of that on the manager. In baseball you have to take a step back sometimes, especially emotionally.

by cj060896 on Aug 6, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs