Hot Stove Part Deux

I think he's at least

a really good #2. Thats all we need. Beane won't take the deal, but I will. :-)

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 10, 2007 11:33 AM EST reply actions

Apparently, the Reds feel that there's a 75% chance that they'll end up with Erik Bedard. They refuse to include OF prospect Jay Bruce. A deal including Homer Bailey, Joey Votto, and Josh Hamilton may be something that perks Baltimore's attention.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 10, 2007 4:55 PM EST reply actions

The opinion of an A's fan

I don't think we've seen the best of Haren yet, but at this point he is a great #2, you can stretch him into the #1 slot but you'll end up wishing for a little bit. Luckily, Webb is a true #1.

I have a question for the snake faithful. Well, 3 questions.

Do the D'backs really want to shell out big money on Valverde? If they don't, do you think they'd be interested in Huston Street? And if they are interested in Street, do you think a package of Street plus Haren puts Justin Upton on the table?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 9:02 PM EST reply actions

more than likely

Valverde will be traded, and we have the bullpen. We don't need Street, keep 'em.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 10, 2007 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

Really?

I thought Wickman was retiring.

You think you can trade Valverde and not worry about upgrading the bullpen? Who would close, Lyon?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 10:10 PM EST up reply actions

Pena or Lyon

most likely Pena. Wickman did little with us. The bullpen is the least any of us are worried about.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 10, 2007 10:45 PM EST up reply actions

Huh

So what would the D'backs be going after if they traded Valverde? SP? Think there's any interest in one of Cleveland's spare arms?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 10:56 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, SP

We have decent bullpen depth. Pena, Cruz, Lyon, Slaten, Peguero, Nippert, Petit, Ojeda, and the list goes on. Closers are way overrated right now and the target for trading Valverde would be a SP, I would imagine.

The only Indians that would interest me are Fausto Carmona, Aaron Laffey, Adam Miller, and maybe Jake Westbrook. No thanks on Cliff Lee, which seems to be the guy they want to deal.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 10, 2007 11:24 PM EST up reply actions

I think most everyone would like Carmona!

Might have a shot at Westbrook.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

JUpton is a keeper

I don't see AZ putting Upton out there for anything less than an insane, franchise altering deal. We've invested too much money in him already not to see what he's going to do.

by Counsellmember on Dec 10, 2007 10:01 PM EST up reply actions

If Street+Haren doesn't equal

an insane, franchise altering deal then I have trouble understanding what such a deal would entail.

I have yet to see the player that cannot be traded. Babe Ruth got traded, Cy Young got traded, A-Rod got traded, Justin Upton can be dealt.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 10:14 PM EST up reply actions

Here's the problem

Street can't stay healthy. Yeah, he's awesome when he plays, but what few innings we may or may not get of him isn't worth Upton.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 10, 2007 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

Fair enough

The elbow was an issue last year, he didn't need surgery but I understand why you'd be leery.

As to the bigger question, what would it take for the D'backs to trade Upton? Don't tell me he's untouchable, history says otherwise. You don't have to say names, just job descriptions. Obviously at the top of the list is a #2 caliber SP with pretensions of Acehood. What else?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 10:40 PM EST up reply actions

it would take

Johan Santana with about 3 years left on his contract.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 10, 2007 10:48 PM EST up reply actions

So sign him to an extension

Or do you think AZ won't/can't commit that much to any player, much less a pitcher?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

Neither

I don't think it's can't or won't, but the opportunity isn't there. If Santana is a free-agent, sure, you're going after him to a point. To trade away all of your talent for him and still have to pay him, it doesn't make any sense for this team.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 10, 2007 11:07 PM EST up reply actions

I'd say

that is the list. A Fausto Carmona/Chien-Ming Wang. That's it.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 10, 2007 11:12 PM EST up reply actions

So Haren for Upton is plausible?

My guess is you're talking straight up.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 10, 2007 11:48 PM EST up reply actions

Not for me it's not

Haren's pretty far down my list. It's not that I don't think he's a good pitcher, he's just the wrong kind of pitcher for our division and our ballpark. And I don't think he's an ace.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 7:40 AM EST up reply actions

First thing I did was call him a #2

But I disagree with you if you've got Haren lower on your list than Wang. Carmona gives Haren a run for the money.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 8:38 AM EST up reply actions

Haren v Wang

It's not that Wang is better than Haren period. Ben's (nihil) point is that Wang is better than Haren for Chase, a very fly-ball friendly park. I'd rather have Haren than Wang without knowing the home ball park, but I'd rather have Wang than Haren in Chase.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

I think you're investing too much

in Wang's sinker. Haren worked on cutting down the flyballs, posting a 1.03 GO/AO. Wang was better at 2.36. But Haren walked fewer, struck out more and pitched more innings.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, I am

The Diamondbacks play in a park where it is very difficult for fly-ball pitchers to thrive in, yet ground ball pitchers will do well. Wang would put up Webb numbers in this park. I'm not saying Haren would be a catastrophe, but for my money, he's not the best fit.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions

Furthermore

Neither Carmona or Wang is remotely available. And if groundballs are so important, why has AZ said they have zero interest in Joe Blanton. Joe had a 1.39 GO/AO and a 40/140 BB/K.

The implication is Blanton is a better bet to be part of a deal that lands Upton and THAT is just weird.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

You asked what would make him available.

I don't know why they aren't interested in Blanton. I've said in another diary that Blanton would be my target. The first red flag with him is the disparity of his home/road stats. He's been fairly terrible outside of Oakland.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

And

Upton wouldn't be in the conversation for Blanton. He's as good a bet as Haren is. Upton isn't getting traded.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions

What about Young?

As I said below, the A's need a CF and/or a SS in addition to the arm they always demand in a deal like this.

Why would the A's trade a prime chip like Haren and satisfy none of their needs?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

Why indeed

This is my prime motivation for believing that this deal will never happen. Upton, Young, Scherzer, Webb, Jackson, and Drew are not going anywhere.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

I never would have asked for Webb

Too damn good. It would have been an insult to even suggest him.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

Which lets us know you aren't...

a Yankee fan. I swear, those guys believe that EVERYONE should be willing to trade all their top players to NY. I read a post from a Yankee fan on ESPN who was saying the Yankees should go get Webb AND/or Peavy. Unbelievable.

by azshadowwalker on Dec 14, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

<shuffles in quietly>

Om mani padme hum. You don't really want Dan Haren. Om mani padme hum. You'd miss Emilio Bonifacio too much. Om mani padme hum. You don't really want a Haren/Webb twosome. Om mani padme hum.....

Friendly visiting Rockies fan.

by Silverblood on Dec 11, 2007 3:11 AM EST reply actions

Ahahahaha

That was a good one. Funny

2007 NLCS: the little scratch on the roof of your mouth that would heal if only you could stop tonguing it... but you cant.

by Adam1 on Dec 11, 2007 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Nice try!

Hey, you know that "NL Champion" banner you guys have? We may need that in about, oh, ten months or so...

I'm not superstitious- it's bad luck.

by kishi on Dec 14, 2007 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

Improved Kurdora offer?

Apparently we've upped the money but not the tenure. Thoughts? Does this mean the Haren deal is more than likely down the pooper. I realize he doesn't fit the park's style, but I really like his hair

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 9:07 AM EST reply actions

or did he cut it?

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 9:08 AM EST up reply actions

OK, sensing an attachment to Upton

What about Chris Young?

I've sensed that AZ is reluctant to give big money to Valverde and what I've read here supports that feeling. I think the Diamondbacks would be interested in Street if they traded Valverde. If you pay the guy you already have then I withdraw the Street idea altogether. But if you trade Valverde... I don't see how the D'Backs can expect to contend with what's left in the bullpen. Pena could keep improving. Lyon's been healthy two years running and he's a plus. But Cruz has been unreliable his entire career and Slaten was a rookie.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 9:22 AM EST reply actions

you don't seem to understand

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, We don't need a closer. When Valverde's gone we can replace him quite easily. Not only do we have Major league talent already, but we have several guys near ready in the minors. Including a closer in training in Max Scherzer. We want SP if we're to trade Valverde. Houston Street is not an option, we don't need him. As most believe here the closer role is overrated.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions

Yup

And what many outsiders tend to forget is that Valverde is not far removed from being sent down to the minors. This team has proven in the past that it could throw damn near anyone in the 9th inning and things typically turn out the same.

Closers are just too easy to find.

by AZSEAfan @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 1:01 PM EST up reply actions

IAWTC

Valverde gave me ulcers last season

We will meet in Red 3 at the hour of scampering.

by hotclaws on Dec 11, 2007 2:25 PM EST up reply actions

talking to the wrong team

Street is a valuable player, but we're competitors in the trading away young closers market, not matches. Like others have said, we don't just have one possible replacement in the wings for Valverde, we have 4 (Pena, Cruz, Lyon, and Scherzer). Our bullpen was so good last year that when we added Wickman he was still only the fifth best option out of the pen (behind Valverde, Pena, Lyon, Cruz, and Slaten). The respective ages of those? 28, 25, 28, 29, and 27. You're throwing your bait in the wrong pond.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 1:04 PM EST up reply actions

Pena or Lyon? OK

Cruz? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

(Sorry, he pitched for Oakland.)

If you trust Cruz in the 9th you're going to hate yourself in the morning.

Scherzer will be an Athletic if you have Haren.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

Scherzer has already been named

untouchable. I think you're putting WAY to much weight on the bullpen. We've seen from last year that Cruz breaks down. He took about a month sabbatical. No one and I mean NO ONE is penciling Cruz in as a closer.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions

You've got too many untouchables to land Haren

The A's need a CF or a SS and the D'backs offer neither. They insist on a good SP prospect that's close to major league ready. AZ doesn't want to part with that. Bontafalico (um, spelling) sucks. Gonzalez has a ton of tools but hasn't performed up to them.

Arizona is going to have to take a name off the "untouchable" list if they really want Haren.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

We don't HAVE to have him

Byrnes puts the offer on the table. It's up to Billy Beane to decide whether he's gonna take it or not.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 3:32 PM EST up reply actions

So, you're willing to roll

with a rotation of Webb, Davis and Owings then cross your fingers on the rest? Plus trade Valverde?

You're right, you don't need Haren. You do need another SP and as long as the Dodgers don't land Bedard you should be able to get by with a solid, not great arm.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions

Of course we need another SP

and if Valverde is traded thats what it will be for. We aren't going ahead with a 4 man rotation and no Valverde. You're just putting words in my mouth. That isn't at all what I said.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 4:44 PM EST up reply actions

Well, no

That didn't come out how I intended it. My apologies.

You need another SP and you have the pieces to land one. I'm just not sure Valverde is the guy to get your shopping done. How many teams need a closer caliber bullpen arm and have spare SP? I'm not sure if Cleveland is shopping for a bullpen arm and Milwaukee just signed Gagne and Riske.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

you misunderstand

I merely said Cruz was better than Wickman last year
Cruz's numbers bear that out: 3.10 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 205 BAA. I never called Cruz a candidate to close or better than Street or any other ridiculous thing, I merely said that the fact that Cruz was very solid last year and was still buried on our depth chart shows how solid our pen was.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

You aren't going to have Scherzer

if you trade for Haren. The A's can't touch Parker, no way does Beane let you keep your 2nd best pitching prospect.

I'm not trying to be difficult but I don't see the minor league arms you're referring to. Stange looks at least a year away, after him are there a couple older guys (25 and above) that you're referring to?

Forget Street. I got that message. I don't see how you can trade Valverde and be fine in the bullpen. Pena to closer, fine. But after him?

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions

Fine in the Bullpen

Well, I think JByrnes' m.o. for talent collection needs to be taken into consideration. When he acquires SP's, his #1 priority is acquiring pitchers who consistantly throw a ton of innings. By valuing durability, he is placing less of an emphasis on a dominant bullpen. Last year, this strategy allowed us to mix and match our four best options, depending on the situation/random whim of Melvin. IF we got Haren, that'd be another starter who averages over 6 innings a start, which means that bullpen depth isn't our largest priority. Even if you don't buy that, Pena, Lyon, Cruz, and a bunch of live arms works for the D'Back faithful. Honestly, even if we don't have Scherzer, we still have the 7-9 innings covered with Cruz-Lyon-Pena. All we really need is one more stud from the fringe guys to be really comfortable. But on the list of priorities? Nah, I'll take SP depth over bullpen depth any day, and so will JByrnes.

our win differential is more important than your run differential...

by dbackerinparadise on Dec 11, 2007 2:30 PM EST up reply actions

You'll have to forgive me

Reliable and Cruz does not compute. He's a classic million dollar arm/5 cent head pitcher. I don't think he's someone you can count on year after year. If Cruz is the 4th bullpen arm you mention you're probably fine, asking him to be the #3... asking for trouble IMO.

As for valuing durability, you've got Randy Johnson pencilled in as your 4th SP.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 2:46 PM EST up reply actions

Durability clarified

Well, while that is true, I was more refering to stamina. I would not be naive enough to claim that The Unit is durable in an injury context; when he isn't hurt, he often goes the distance.

We differ on Cruz. I think, as a 7th inning guy, he can be reliable. I concur that he isn't a setup man or a closer, but I think he can and will be a hell of a middle reliever.

our win differential is more important than your run differential...

by dbackerinparadise on Dec 11, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions

I think you're opinion is colored...

By the one bad year in Oakland, where he pitched only 32.2 innings. Outside of that one, here are his innings and ERA+ for the past four years:
2004: 72 IP, ERA+ 157
2006: 94.2 IP, ERA+ 113*
2007: 61 IP, ERA+ 152
* - in 2006, he was mostly a starter, as a reliever, he had a 3.32 ERA and kept batters to a .153 average. I think he's a perfectly adequate 7th-inning guy.

And how's Brad Halsey working out for you? :-)

by Jim McLennan on Dec 11, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

Ouch!

now that was a bit harsh. He's trying to have a civilized debate and you drop a huge dump on his chest. No reason to bring up Halsey, but I guess he deserves that for picking on Famine. For heavens sake he isn't big enough to protect himself. :-)

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 11, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

not to mention

he's only 29. It's not as though his tools are eroding.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

Everything touched by the Hudson trade

has been evil. Beane blew it on that one.

I think Cruz is a stretch in the 7th and incapable of performing in the 8th or 9th if something should happen to Lyon or Pena.

If he's the 4th guy in line like he was for you in 2007 then you're fine.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 4:20 PM EST up reply actions

Chris Young

I'd probably do a Young for Haren deal straight up... but you're not going to get much else if you get Young. He's not just ML ready, he's ML proven.

And the thing is, you're not dealing with us, you're dealing with the FO, and the FO ain't gonna deal Young for anybody.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 12:57 PM EST up reply actions

Young is ML proven

Haren is a ML All-Star.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 1:50 PM EST up reply actions

but

Young is 3 years younger, and is salaried at the minimum level.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 3:41 PM EST up reply actions

Good luck

finding a pitcher as talented and affordable as Haren is for the next 3 years

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

and good luck to you

finding a CF that is as talented and affordable as CY for the next 5.

My point isn't that I don't want Haren. I'd LOVE to have Haren. I'm just saying that Young is a comparable young talent.

by johngordonma on Dec 11, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

I'll give you comparable

However, as of today, Haren is 1 of the best SP in the game. Young is not 1 of the best CF in the game. He will get better, but 3 years of peak value should be worth more than 3 years of a not-quite-there player.

At this point Dan Haren is simply the better player and any deal between these two teams should acknowledge that.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions

Condensed

A) We need starting pitching.

B) We don't need bullpen (unless it gets blown up via trades)

C) CY and Upton are pretty much as close to untouchable as you're going to get in the Diamondback's network.

D)The longer this drags on the more I doubt any deal will be done. The A's will most likely keep Haren and we most likely will have to look elsewhere or pray to the mighty St. Penelope for mercy.

Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Dec 11, 2007 6:54 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks for the time folks!

Time for me to move on. Best o' luck in 2008.

by grover @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 11, 2007 6:01 PM EST reply actions

Kuroda

There's a rumor flying around that Kuroda has chosen the Dodgers. The team supposedly doesn't know. Grain of salt.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 11, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply actions

Kuroda, Iguchi, Fukudome

Kuroda has canceled his US tour, but it seems that at least the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, and Mariners remain in the hunt. Kansas City continues to want to be in the hunt.

The Padres have signed 2B Iguchi to a 1 year deal.

And, as mentioned in the Iguchi story, the Cubs have reportedly agreed to a deal with RF Fukudome on a 4 year, $48mil contract.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 12, 2007 8:26 AM EST reply actions

Movement

Astros traded a package of young players including Matt Albers for Miguel Tejada. Supposedly to play SS.

Giants have signed Aaron Rowand to a 5 year deal.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 12, 2007 4:13 PM EST reply actions

I've got a fever...

and the only prescription is more trade rumors!
There has been a recent increase in signings and trades all of a sudden. I've got a feeling that with Johan probably not going anywhere anytime soon, everyone has decided to go ahead with what they have planned. If the D'Backs are gonna make a move I have a feeling it's gonna be really soon!

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 12, 2007 4:29 PM EST up reply actions

Astros and Giants

Are there two teams more clueless about how far away they are from a championship? None that I know of. These two clubs continue to bury themselves and disallow the development of talent.

by johngordonma on Dec 12, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

How old is Rowand? A 5 year contract for an above average player seems steep.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Dec 12, 2007 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

30

He's 30. It's not that he's a terrible sign at 5 years 60 million. It's that he's a TERRIBLE sign for the Giants. Get real Giants. Pack your bags and let your youth mature a bit. This is Eric Byrnes, pt. II, only the Giants don't have a chance in the world to win in the next 3 years.

by johngordonma on Dec 12, 2007 11:24 PM EST up reply actions

Adam Everett Non-Tendered

I may be completely out of my mind, but what if the Diamondbacks signed him? That frees us up to either trade or not re-sign Hudson next year. I think Drew could play second and Everett is the best defensive short-stop in baseball.

I suppose it'd be putting a lot of faith in Drew improving his offense.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 12, 2007 11:45 PM EST reply actions

Nevermind

I didn't notice that he's already 30 (almost 31).

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 12, 2007 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

Wow

Minnesota scooped him up anyway. People are down on the Twins' lineup, but I think they can afford to have Everett in there hitting 9th with what he brings on defense. I think they're one good hitter away from having a downright decent lineup. If Harris, Kubel, or Delmon Young become that player, then they have the pitching to do well.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 13, 2007 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

Interesting move

When it all works out the Twins add Delmon Young and Adam Everett for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett. Not too shabby as Everett "should" grab a gold glove in the AL and could save that pitching staff a ton of runs on that turf of theirs.

by AZSEAfan @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 13, 2007 1:40 PM EST up reply actions

Other non-tendered players of interest

Not much more then a bunch of salvage projects and Otsuka, which I'm guessing must still be hurt.

Cubs - Mark Prior. The Diamondbacks don't do incentive contracts, but should make an exception here.

Yankees - Matt DeSalvo and Darrell Rasner. I'm not sure on the rules because DeSalvo only came up to the bigs last year. He's a 2-seam/4-seam/change/curve/slider/forkball guy that has had control issues, but seems to have talent. His fastball sinks well, supposedly, and his best pitch is his change. Rasner is kind of a AAAA guy that I think needs to be moved to the bullpen. He's also had some injury issues hold him back. Both will be 27 next season.

Rangers - Akinori Otsuka. The injury must still be a concern.

Blue Jays - Josh Towers. Doesn't walk people much, but also struggles with keeping the ball down at times.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 13, 2007 9:31 AM EST reply actions

mmmm...

Mark Prior. Pleeeease!?!

by johngordonma on Dec 13, 2007 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, maybe

I really want to be excited about Prior, but he's been so bad/injured for so long that it's impossible to gauge if it's worth it. I envision the situation being a minor league contract with provisions for raises when he comes up to the majors and other levels of performance bonuses and team options for extra years.

The Diamondbacks don't do any of that, which is kind of a shame, but oh well. He wouldn't take it anyway. There will be a team that offers him a big league deal for 1-2 years with performance bonuses and a team option year or two. My best guesses are Houston, either Chicago team, Seattle, or Baltimore.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

Besides,

some team will probably pony up and give him a 2/$16M deal on his potential alone.

by AZSEAfan @ AZ Snakepit on Dec 13, 2007 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

I'd

fall out of my seat if he got more than $6M for 1 year or $11M for 2. But with Gagne's contract maybe everything's out the window.

by johngordonma on Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

Callaspo Traded

To the Royals for SP prospect Billy Buckner.

"Buckner, a labrum surgery survivor, has a plus curveball according to Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein. Goldstein adds that he's able to get groundballs and projects as a fourth starter. Throw him in the NL, maybe he could even become a #3."

I like it. Thoughts?

by pepperdinedevil on Dec 14, 2007 3:31 PM EST reply actions

I'm looking into it

but from my initial impressions it sounds pretty good.

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 14, 2007 3:58 PM EST up reply actions

Decent

Buckner will be a project for someone. He actually throws 2 curveballs. A regular 12/6 (he calls it a "power curve") and a knuckle-curve. Both are supposedly very good. His fastball is a low 90's sinker and his change-up is borderline worthless. His weakness has always been control, but he's done some decent things in the minors when healthy. I've read comparisons to Jake Westbrook and Scott Linebrink, which is good. Others have said he's a right handed Doug Davis, but with a sinker.

I like it and I hope this means that the FO thinks Hudson will sign long term.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 14, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

Good write-up

This summarizes all of the scouting reports I read pretty nicely.

http://royaltower.blogspot.com/2007/10/trt-prospect-3-billy-buckner.html

They may be a little high on him in the crystal ball.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 14, 2007 4:06 PM EST up reply actions

You guys think this is

a bullpen move then? or do you think we're going for cheap starter alternative. Hopefully this is just to provide some depth and this guy isn't our answer to the pitching problem

Tippecanoe and Pena too! (let's hope pena doesn't die after 30 days in office)

by seton hall snake pit on Dec 14, 2007 4:13 PM EST up reply actions

Nice move

These are the kinds of moves that won't get much ink, but can really make a team. I like it. Nice K/BB ratio, nice to have another GB arm in the pen (or as a possible starter). This frees things up a bit on the ML roster as well.

by johngordonma on Dec 14, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

Neither?

I foresee him starting the year in Tucson unless he's just lights out in sprint training. This could also be a pre-cursor to another trade involving one of our other pitchers. Nippert, Gonzalez, etc.

Bob Melvin Sucks

by nihil67 on Dec 14, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

Buckner!

I love that every time KTAR mentioned the trade today, they had to add the qualifier, "not THAT Buckner."

Stay grindy, my friends.

by soco on Dec 14, 2007 6:16 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed

I see this, along with the Carter move earlier, as a precursor to something more. Creating depth in the organization to replace what were potentially going to lose... Maybe. Hopefully.

by pepperdinedevil on Dec 14, 2007 5:35 PM EST reply actions