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2007; to the future: Closers

Sorry about crashing your 2007 diaries Jim, but we have a huge hole in our bullpen. Yes, in the start, our bullpen was phenomenal. But, after that great start we had into the summer, our bullpen collapsed, along with the whole team. Now, when we were still in contention in early September where we had those big 7th, 8th, 9th inning wins... we lost, because of the holes in our pitching. Our starting rotation is decent, we just need one more 14 win starter to help us with a 3.50 ERA. Now getting back on track, the hole in our bullpen is the closer position.

We traded El Duque for Jorge Julio from the Mets after the start of the Diamondbacks' free fall. We gained some depth in our pitching staff, but he didn't last too long, as he blew saves after saves like Valverde. As much as we love to say Jorge Juuuuuuuuuuuuliiiiiiiiioooooooooooo and Papa Grande, we have to fix the hole before we have a closing committee. Now, what the Diamondbacks need is a person who Repertoire is better than two pitches. We do not need a fastball specialist like Valverde, because those mighty walkoff hits that killed our chances at the NL West Championship. We need a guy who understands pressure, understand those times where the bases are juiced, and we need an out. Well, I'm not much of a stat guy, more of a potential guy. I'll leave the stats to Jim. But here are the options that the D-backs have:

* Trade Estrada: This is a no brainer, we have three potential catchers that could do the job as well as Estrada. Synder has had a great year, even though he was a backup, but hey, any type of player hitting better than .220 is a huge improvement. Montero is probably going to the minor leagues, but is a good insurance plan with is potential, but he is still young. It seems like our new policy is not to rush these young players. Robby Hammock might make his comeback next year as backup, even though we haven't seen him since last year. But I do think that he will be backup for Synder. And it will be good to have him as utility role because the multiple position he plays. That will make having all our starters have a rest better because we have all our backups. Trade Estrada for a starting pitcher or a reliever that could handle the job.

Potential Candidates:
San Francisco: But who do we want from that pitching staff. They won't hand us their rookies or their well trained prospects. Hmm, who is there. No one I think that will make a big contribution to our staff, but Armando Benitez. He is risky, I would want someone else relieving the 9th inning than him.

San Diego Padres: Yes, the Padres have the 3rd best bullpen in the National League. But they already have Piazza in the backfield. He has done a fair job with the Padres and I don't think they would trade for Estrada. But I think that Scott Linebrink would be a great addition for our team. But Like I said, would they want Estrada even though Piazza had a good year with them. But Piazza does have a one year deal with the Pods...

Cincinnati Reds: They also have a new look, and next year, it seems like they look like a playoff team. They do need a Catcher. And they added alot of firepower to their pitching staff. I would say trade Estrada to the Reds for Todd Coffey but it looks like they want to keep him for a while because of what he could do. But when we faced Coffey, we crushed him. He looks like someone we could rely on. Eddie Guardado is another guy we should look at, but he looks risky.

* We could sign these risky guys that was exceptional closers:

Joe Borowski, He is a great closer for the Florida Marlins. Although the Marlins may resign him, there is a chance that we can get him. He has a 3.92 era, 36 saves, a 1.41 WHIP.

Dan Kolb, He had a great 2004 season with the Milwaukee Brewers with 39 saves, 5 blown saves, a 2.96 era. But after that year, when he was with Braves, he was so awful, he went back to the Brewers. He is a free agent, and we should sign him short-term.

Octavio Dotel, A great setup man with the A's, but he was never tested by the Yankees as a closer because of his injury. If he didn't succeed in closer for our team, we can use him for SU.

Mike Timlin, A seasoned veteran who should do well in the National League. This year, he hasn't been doing well this year with a 4.02 ERA, with a 1.44 WHIP. But hey, we need some of that veteran influence in our bullpen. I know he wasn't a closer because of Keith Foulke, but we can give it a try.

* Have one of our guys be closer. Have a Closer battle at ST:

Valverde, a decent closer in the beginning of the season, but turn devious because of his love of the high power fastball. That ball will be crushed. We can't have that.

Lyon, the great closer that had what, 14/15 save attempts in 2005. A good year he should have had, but an injury removed him from that part. And now he is on the hot seat because of all those blown leads by him and Vizcaino.

Medders, I said Medders in Jim's 2nd part of the "fill in the blanks" diary. I said Medders because we haven't tried him, but it looks like he will be great. This year he has a 3.75 ERA, and has a WHIP of 1.44. But the thing is with him is that he is the mopup guy! Give this guy a chance. He might win it. I remember seeing in gameday the pressure on him in a tied situation. Have him pitch as closer. I know my reasons don't make sense, but give this guy a chance.

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments

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No, you've got Mando all wrong!
He'd be a WONDERFUL addition to your 'pen! 97 mph...and so appreciative of his teammates and fans!
A truly worthy investment!
Ladies and Gentlemen...The Ken Kendrick Karma Kameleon Kangaroo Kourt Karnival Krusade welcomes you to Urine Sample Cup Night!

by suitsmetoATnT on Sep 27, 2006 10:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 cents
You missed a very obvious trading partner, and that's the Astros.  Ausmus is toast and they have nobody waiting.  Lidge and Wheeler are both guys I would target.

Other teams that could be looking for catchers and have releivers I'd be interested in: A's (Duchscherer), Phillies (Geary), Nationals (Cordero, Ayala, Rauch)

Free agents I'd target: Fransisco Cordero and Octavio Dotel.

Stay very far away from Kolb, Borowski, and Timlin.

by nihil67 on Sep 28, 2006 12:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Astros
They are contenders of the trade block of Estrada, but Wheeler, Springer, and LIdge seems to me, non tradeable. I would like to have one of them in our bullpen, but its not likely we could trade him for one of those guys for some reason. If we get the right trade for Estrada, which last year we got a steal, we could have that trade when we trade Vazquez.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be so sure
My guess is that Lidge is very available.

by nihil67 on Sep 28, 2006 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The question is...
If lidge was so available, why didnt stros trade him in the offseason last year, or before the deadlline?
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two reasons
They didn't trade him last offseason because he was one of the best closers in the league last year.

They didn't trade him at the trade deadline either a) because they thought they needed him for a playoff run or, b) couldn't find a deal they liked.

by nihil67 on Sep 28, 2006 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
He wasn't the best closer in the NL in the offseason or the playoffs. He screwed up when Pujols bombed the ball.

And, im leaning towards the B option, but if we could meet with the team get him, I would be happy but concerned that the Stros don't want him because of the lack of inconsistancy.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If there's one thing he's had this year
it's inconsistancy.  But, I think I know what you're trying to say.  All I'm saying is that his stock is low, Estrada's stock is high.

by nihil67 on Sep 28, 2006 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lidge
If we can get Lidge i think we are getting a steal!  The best thing for Lidge right now would be to get out of Houston.  Unless they make the playoffs and he redeems himself.  I think the Cards are trying to give him a chance.

by DiamondbacksWIn on Sep 29, 2006 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would think myself
in the bottom of my heart, that Lidge would do great as our closer, but it seems that he is untradeable. I'm sorry for some reason, I don't think he is coming to Arizona.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 29, 2006 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clos(er)ing thoughts...
Always happy when people put up diaries, VIII, it's what they're there for! Especially when they've clearly had a good bit of thought put into them, like this one.

On the other hand, personally, I'm reluctant to head after a closer that would require the expense of a lot of money or the dangling of significant trade bait - they only throw maybe 70-80 innings and I tend to think closers are basically a relief pitcher with good PR guys. :-) I think the number of "genuine" closers, who can perform the role, year in, year out, without the kind of issues we've experienced this year, is pretty small. Hoffman, Rivera...and I'm not sure it goes much further than that at the moment.

Sure, it'd be nice to have someone utterly reliable, but it's not really a necessity, or worth overpaying for. See, for example, the Blue Jays and B.J.Ryan, whom they signed to a five-year, $47m contract. And he has performed brilliantly, with 35 saves and a 1.43 ERA. But are Toronto going to the playoffs? Not by 7.5 games, at the moment, they're not.

In contrast, compare the 2001 Diamondbacks. We started off with Matt Mantei as the closer, lost him to an elbow injury and switched to Bret Prinz for a bit (half way through the year, he had more saves than anyone else), then decided to go with Kim down the stretch. Nobody had even 20 saves for that team in the regular season. And we all know very well what happened during the two "save situations" in the World Series! And guess what? We still won it all.

Closers = over-rated. They're a fabricated role, spawned by the artificial creation of the save statistic. If anyone should have got a save in today's game, for example, it was Doug Slaten, who got the final out of the seventh, with a tying run at third base. Absolutely no room for error there: a walk, hit, wild pitch, would all have scored the run. Somehow, coming in for the ninth with the bases empty and a three-run cushion, as Valverde did, is a far less challenging job.

Oh, and on the subject of Estrada, he apparently would like to be traded to the Phillies or Giants. Fortunately, he doesn't have a say in this matter, and will have to go wherever he's told. Hitting .300 or not, after all his whining recently, I won't be sorry to see him and his first-pitch hacking on the bus to...hmm, maybe Baltimore would be nice. ;-)

by Jim McLennan on Sep 28, 2006 1:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Come back, Johnny, come back (?)
First, let me say I'm not happy about Estrada's whining.  I was a much bigger proponent of bringing him back before he started acting like my four-year-old.  However, I have a few concerns.  

I was once a Cubs fan and I remember a super back-up catcher who didn't pan out.  In the early-mid 1980's the Cubs back-up catcher was a guy named Steve Lake.  He backed up Jody Davis and others and he would hit for fair average and was very solid.  One year, Davis went down and Lake played a lot.  He hit somewhere south of the Mendoza line and was an unmitigated disaster.  Harry Carey called him a "bench me or trade me" guy.  I am worried that Snyder is the same guy.  He was an awful hitter every day and great as a back-up.  That leaves an entirely untested rookie and a utility guy with bad knees catching for us.  Nervous about that I am.

by Louchart45 on Sep 28, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understandable, your concern is...
Snyder's 2004 was pretty bad. However, IIRC, he skipped Triple-A, and that's a difficult leap for any player to make. Now he's got two years more experience under his belt, and I'm optimistic the days of his famous "underwater" swings (TM Mark "Is this thing on?" Grace) are largely past. I think careful platooning will be required, but between him and Montero, we'll see adequate production. It may be less flashy (fewer bombs, more walks), but I think the OPS will be +/- 30 points of what Estrada gave us this season.

by Jim McLennan on Sep 28, 2006 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agreed with Jim
The D-backs play smallball with a mixture moneyball. Though, with such a low OBP, the let go of Estrada is fine. I mean, its hard for the fans to see the one hacking swing of his. But, yes its nice to see the Home Runs he hits, but Quentin will be our power hitter this year. I think that Q and Jackson will pick up the job of Estrada.

Now, Synder, he is a great backup. But I do agree with Jim that they should cycle the three catchers once in a while until one of them shows great improvement. I mean in 2005, Synder didn't tear it up against Koyle Hill. But he won regardless and we needed that catcher ASAP because we traded our gold nugget. We might not get that mass production from those three guys towards Estrada, but we have to trade him because of the future. And we have to trade him because he is our gold nugget this year.

"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well in my opinion
The Diamondbacks should trade Estrada for a starting pitcher. Because the asking price will be high, and with Estrada's good all-star (pssh, he should have went) season. We should gain one pitcher. I would love to have Bonderman from the Tigers, but they have the loveable Pudge Rodriguez as the backstop. Now, if we can not get a second ace, then that means we have to trade for a good reliever. Now, I know closers are overrated, but we need someone who is at least consistant in our bullpen. I feel my heart like die everytime our starters have like a quality start and the reliever comes in and blows the lead. We need someone whose reliable. I like Slaten, and I do think that he has a shot to be a great reliever or setup man. But I'm not too happy with Valverde, Lyon, or Vizcaino because they bombed too many times and create too many mistakes as they pitch. THose games cost us at least the NL Wild Card, and it sucks knowing we had a shot at the playoffs, but stupid mistakes and lack of consistancy in our bullpen created the gaping hole.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

armando benitez
if the diamondbacks get him i may have to go kill byrnes

even though i love what he has done for the team

armando is that bad

and i get to see him plenty

Webb=Cy Young

by webby17 on Sep 28, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed
because of the fact that I italized the his name.
"very cunning Mr. *VIII*" -- Jim

by Mr. Philosophical on Sep 28, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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